S13 E20: How to Find Your Dream Property and Make It Pay for Itself

They're two of the most burning questions in the homestead world right now: "How do I find land?" and "How can I make money from my land?"

In the current economy, this can feel like an impossible task. Today I'm thrilled to be joined by someone that has created a bulletproof framework on this very subject. Jaymie Friesen has not only created incredible income from his land, he's taught thousands of people to do the same. And he's sharing his secrets in today's episode!

Learn more about Jaymie Friesen here: https://www.livingtheoffgriddream.com

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Transcript

Jill: 0:00

Hey friends. Welcome back to the Old Fashioned On Purpose podcast. So I get a lot of questions that come to me through email and social media and all the places. And I always notice some interesting themes in those questions. And one particular set of questions that comes time and time again would be, how do I find land and how do I make money from my land and, you know, it's. It's always, sorry, Felix, we can cut that out. When I get those questions, I pause a little bit because even though I've done that personally in my life, sometimes I feel like I don't have the perfect formula or model to hand to someone who's trying to follow in our footsteps because, you know, our life's a little different. We have a unique situation. So I thought it was high time that I have someone join me here on the podcast who. does actually have a really compelling model and a really neat story around these very questions. So Jamie Friesen, welcome to the podcast. I am so excited to chat with you more today.

Jaymie: 0:55

Yeah. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And I appreciate everything that you do for everybody here.

Jill: 1:00

Absolutely. So start us off. I'm guessing people may have run into your content without realizing it, but just kind of give us some background and how you got into this world and why you're so passionate about this.

Jaymie: 1:12

Yeah. I mean, I think that I wanted to do this probably since about the age of 13, I kind of just saw the way society was going and that there was a bit of a broken system and that, you know, people. school, then they go on and get into debt going to college or university and then to get a job they don't like to pay for a house that they don't even really live in because they're too busy working their job and all the rest. So that kind of scared me at that age. And I figured And then later went through some mental health battles and stuff, my brother and I both, and between the two of us, we kind of, it was kind of our Pandora's box into seeing a lot of the more broken systems in society, from healthcare to finance to food systems to all sorts of stuff. So we figured the best way to do it, if we're going to sit there and complain about it, that we should probably go out and start from scratch and try to build a better way of living. And, that's what, that's what we did. And so we ended up during COVID my business went bankrupt. So I was in a very bad spot financially. I didn't know how I was going to even put food on the table in the next couple of weeks kind of deal. And yeah, we ended up using strategies that we'll talk about on this call to be able to acquire, we acquired 160 acres in Rock Creek, British Columbia. And we are we built that into a homestead. We a retreat center. We ran retreats and short term rentals in the first years, and we are building out a permaculture farm with 35 plus ponds, a full pond network for gravity feeding our orchards and and our cattle, given our Unique climate and whatnot are are we don't have enough water on site from our well to be able to Provide for all the cattle that we would like so we need to basically have quite a large earthworks project But yeah, we want to be able to demonstrate that you can do this in very hard places as well, so yeah, that's that's kind of us we were We were feet on the ground for seven months with barren land. There's nothing on it, no well, nothing at all. And we went from, from nothing. And seven months later, we were making about 30, 000 a month on the property.

Jill: 3:17

Wait, hold on. Seven months, nothing to making 30, 000 a month in a seven month time span. I heard that right. Okay. That's notable.

Jaymie: 3:27

Yeah. Yeah. It was, yeah, sorry, go ahead.

Jill: 3:30

No, I just like, that's the dream that it's almost, yeah, that people don't think it's possible. So that's outstanding.

Jaymie: 3:38

Yeah, so that was a mixture of short term rentals hosting retreats or renting out space for other people to host retreats and and just letting folks like, you know, rent some space. Like we had somebody come up and they just want to get out of the city and they wanted to have a small wedding. So they came in and it was like, they just paid 15, 000 for a weekend to come camp out and just. There you go. Which was, which was pretty pretty reasonable compared to people paying 30, 000 for four hours at a golf course for, for an event like that.

Jill: 4:09

You were a deal. So, yeah. Okay, so so many questions. First off, you're, you're speaking to broken systems, which is totally my language and the language of this audience. Like, that's one of our favorite things to talk about is how do we... Get out of those systems and repair those systems and make better systems. So that's just hit the nail on the head. I'm curious, like this was a big leap. You were an entrepreneur. You had the really successful businesses prior to COVID. Like, did you have agricultural or homesteading or self sufficiency experience before you took this plunge or were you going in cold Turkey?

Jaymie: 4:41

Yeah. We had, we had, we had, like, I've never grown anything in my life. As far as like, yeah we actually we had two permaculture. Consultants living on site full time that maintained and managed the entire garden and chickens and all of that stuff. Basically whatever we didn't know, we just outsourced and we would use certain strategies such as hosting workshops for being able to afford. Like world renowned experts to come in and help us with our projects. So we would, for example, sell at a workshop that would pay for the consultant to come and do a full design or do a full workshop on our property and build out whatever it was that we needed to be built out. So they would come and spend like three to five days with us prior to the workshop, and then we, they would host the workshop on like the Saturday, Sunday. And the tickets cost for the workshop would pay for them for the entire week.

Jill: 5:29

Okay.

Jaymie: 5:30

So that, that was like, that's just an example of like one strategy that we would use to try, basically learn really quickly because we didn't, we we didn't want to go like, for example, with this kind of thing as, as I'm very sure you know, you kind of need to be a little bit good at a lot of things. So if you were to try to go to you know, get a degree in all of the hundred things that you need, you would spend a dozen lifetimes trying to gain that knowledge. So we knew we needed to learn really, really quickly. And that's one of the strategies that we use to learn really fast and learn from people who had that expert knowledge. Well, we didn't have the money to pay people to do it.

Jill: 6:08

Yeah. That's an incredible way to create leverage. That's brilliant. Because, I mean, these skills are really lifetime skills for a lot of people. And to be able to fast track like that is, is outstanding.

Jaymie: 6:19

Yeah, the, I mean, we did come in with some construction experience, so like Shelby and I both grew up in the construction industry and he was in metal fabrication and I was in, I kind of worked a little bit everything. I was in electrical mainly, but I grew up, you know, framing and, you know, floor laying and like doing a little bit of everything. So, you know, we were pretty competent with our hands and tools to be able to do that kind of stuff. Although we have, we have now with our program we have what are we at? I think we're at 6, 000 customers, 6, 000 clients across 22 countries or more. And many of them are basically the way that we see it is you can strategize your way around anything. Like if you don't want to build something, then we have lots of suppliers that build very cool, very unique. flat pack structural options that you can put in the back of a pickup truck and drive into the bush. And you can set it up in two days with instructions like an Ikea kit and they're rot proof, they're mold proof, they're fireproof, they're, and they're, they're quite nice. So yeah, there's lots of, basically if you don't know how to do something, there's always a way to strategize around it. And a big part of what we help people with is creating that strategy so that people are able to. Do this successfully and allocate their time and their resources correctly, because one wrong, one wrong decision allocating your time and resources could make you go bankrupt and not be able to do this.

Jill: 7:40

I'm trying to get a, a, just a mental picture of your land. Because I'm picturing, you know, in seven months you had weddings there. It must, is it just like, super picturesque? Is this like, I'm picturing just like, water trees. I'm picturing just like, National Park quality land? Or is this just more average land?

Jaymie: 7:54

I wish it's I wouldn't say it's average, but I would say it was undervalued. So that's kind of what we went for, because we didn't have very much money. So we Well, basically, this kind of gets into how we like we'll talk about in a moment, I suppose, how the financial model that we use to be able to attract what I call a mortgage partner to come in. And basically, they come in and help out with the down payment and they take a portion of ownership in the property, and then we're responsible for paying the mortgage on the property. So they benefit because they put in the upfront money, but then they don't do anything. They just sit there. And we've, we've 5x'ed the value of the land since then. So it's now worth about a million bucks. So they've sat back and done nothing, and their value has gone up by 5x. And that's why somebody would be able to... That's why somebody would want to help somebody get into property like this. But even with that, we knew that if we started with something a lot cheaper, it would just be a lot easier to find somebody to help us. So we started with property. It would cost 200, 000 bucks, which is some places that might be more expensive, but in British Columbia here, that's like very, very affordable because most properties are in the millions. So very expensive here. And it was the reason it was cheap was because we're basically on top of a mountain were double the elevation of our nearby town. We're at 4500 feet. It is not traditional farmland at all. The terrain is very crazy. We have a full mountain on like a quarter of it. So out of 160 acres, there's probably. Probably 50 acres of that is literally just like the base of this mountain that takes about 40 minutes to climb. So it's a, it's like pretty significant terrain and we're having, but we, we kind of believe in trying to see those. Most people would walk into a situation like that and be like, I don't want it. And they think that's a bad thing. And we want. So we want to be able to find strategies to flip that and say, okay, what are the pros of this? And the pros is that it's beautiful. We're on top of a mountain. Your views are incredible. You know people come and they've come up and we've had multiple proposals on top of our lookout point with just like Mountains rolling mountains for as far as you can see And people wanting to come back every year for their anniversaries after that and things like that But yeah, it's also like our soil is dust. We're in a desert alpine climate, so it gets, you know, 51 degrees Celsius in the summer and negative 30 degrees Celsius in the winter with four feet of snow. So it's a, it's a difficult terrain to, to operate in. And that's why it was so cheap, but we were able to flip some of those things for people to want to do it, to come out there and, and whatnot. I don't think I'd overcomplicate it. I honestly think that people just want to get out of the city. That's like the main thing that we hear as to like why people even want to come out there is that to us, it's normal. It's just like, whatever, it's inconvenient. We're driving up this big hill to get to our land, but for them, it's an adventure. It's an amazing thing just to get out of the city and just chill out and just be in the, be in the trees and just like that, that's all they want. That's all they, and more people need more of that. So another big reason why people come up is one of our strategies that we use is called wow factor. So there can be natural wow factors such as the mountain for people to have a cool view or you could have a river, a creek running through your land. Those are all reasons people would want to come to your property and, you know, buy your produce and stay for a night if you have, you know, stuff available or like rent a field out back. To have a wedding, like whatever, right? But either can also be manmade ones. So one of our biggest ones is actually a hydrotherapy spa. It was a sauna. We made, we actually built one. We, we found a, a solid oak wine barrel left over from an old winery and we picked it up on Facebook marketplace for a couple of grand and we turned it into like a custom built sauna, a wood fire sauna. And then we. Took some like 300 troughs and threw some water in it. And there's the ice bath. And then we just had a fire pit and, and people absolutely loved it. People drove six hours from Vancouver to come up for one or two nights. Just because we had photos of this sauna and they would get up and get to use it. And, and yeah, it was a very that, that seems to be like one of the best bangs for your buck is, is to get a sauna and hydrotherapy set up to attract people in, but it could be anything. It could be hammocks or nets up in the tree or even the dwelling itself. Maybe you want to put a cool tiny home or a shipping container home or a Hobbit home, or like something that's unique, that's going to attract people. Yeah.

Jill: 12:35

sauna story. That's awesome. Okay. So my, my, my wheels are turning. I'm really, especially honing in on what you said about the undervalued lands because I have, when people ask me and I, I, this is not my wheelhouse, like it is yours, but people ask me all the time, like, how do I find land? And that's kind of usually where I start with. And I say, you know, we bought ugly duckling property way back in 2008. So it was a little different. Homesteading wasn't cool. It was like, fixer uppers weren't cool. It was just like, Oh, y'all are crazy. Okay. But like the ugly duckling land is what got us into what we have now. But when I tell that to people here in 2023, they're like, yeah, but even the fixer upper, the, the, the crummy land is super expensive right now. So what would you say to someone who's desperate to buy land? They want it so bad, but they're still finding the not great stuff out of their price range. Hmm.

Jaymie: 13:23

way is like, you can go on something like discountlots. com right now, and anybody that works at McDonald's can afford land. Like there's zero excuses. You can get land for a dollar down and 300 a month. And you know, when people try to tell me that that's like, it's really just the level of sacrifice that somebody might be willing to make or not make right where, you know, are you going to find the perfect property right next door to you that you're like comfortable moving to? No, probably not. But you can find something that will work and if you're willing to make the sacrifice when we started this, we drove for six hours through the mountains all the time. We drove up and back every single week, running material loads up here, just trying to make it work, right? We have clients that fly across the country to do it. I'm in Canada, so discount lots isn't the thing. I don't have those kind of owner financing options here. Although like there's ways to do it yourself, which we'll talk about on this call, but in the U S if you, you like, there's, it's kind of a lot easier because of, because of that, you have more, you have more financial options and discount lots. com is pretty sweet. So, you know, when people say that, I'm like, man, like I go on there all the time and I'm like, okay, here's a 10 acre lot, an hour and a half outside of LA. And I'm like, this is, this is great. Like you could do all sorts of things. The zoning is perfect. You can run a business on it. You can grow food, you can sell food, you can do whatever you want. And people are like, Oh, well it's in this little town and the town's beat up. And I'm like, dude, it takes me two hours to go get groceries in a shitty little town. You're, you drive for an hour and a half. You're in downtown LA. You can get whatever you want. So like suck it up. Like that's just a, that's just a part of it. Right. And, and it does, it's not a forever thing. Right. Like, it's not like you have to be there forever, but if you went there and you proved the model and you started doing it and you established that credibility that, and you increase the land value. Either you increase the land value and have enough income from it that you can then sell it and go move and buy the big property of your dreams that you really want. And you can level up like that or you establish the credibility and you get a mortgage partner or investor to go in on you with the next project so that you can get what you want. So it's just like, and if you want to live that lifestyle, then the goal is to also make peace with your journey, right? Like if you're out there and you're doing it and that's the lifestyle you're dreaming of doing, then like, why are you complaining? You get out there and learn how to be happy with it.

Jill: 15:37

Yeah, good advice, I think, for anything in life, right? We all want the easy path. That's what people are looking for. But I know everything good in our life has come with another measure of sacrifice and it's easy to look back now and it looks like a romantic story to people, I think, of, you know, happily ever after. And I'm like, no, no. When we were in the trenches, like it, it was a slog, but I'm so glad we did it because it's, it gave us the ability to have what we have now. Hey friend, I'm interrupting this episode for just a second to give a shout out to our sponsor, Genuine Beef. Now, this is actually my beef company, the one that my husband and I started a number of years ago to bring our grass finished Wyoming beef straight to your doorstep. And I know that whenever we start to shift into this fall and winter season, I get the very primal urge to stock up on food. And I know many of you feel that same way. So we have put together a freezer filler special to help you do just you're going to get four of our most popular beef roasts, the ones that are great for crock pots and those cozy winter meals, as well as three pounds of our 90 10 ground beef. We're going to put it all in a bundle and give it to you for 15 percent off. off while supplies last. Now we can ship this to anywhere in the continental US. We do second day air. We put a lot of dry ice in there, so it'll get to your doorstep safe and sound. And if you want to grab a box or two or three, head on over to the prairiehomestead. com slash freezer to grab your bundle. And I'll go ahead and drop that link in the show notes too. Now back to our episode. so I think that's such a great point about just having to be willing to sacrifice and do what no one else is willing to do. I think we all too often just want that easy path. It's just human nature. And I know looking back at my own story. The best things I have now were a result of taking that unbeaten path, doing the thing that was harder. There was an element of suffering and sacrifice during the time, but like now we can look back at it fondly. So it just, it works. You just have to be willing to put in the sweat and the blood and the tears sometimes.

Jaymie: 17:34

Yeah. And I agree with the, I mean, the memories are very fond for sure. Like it's, it's a journey. It's like, you know, really cool stories to be able to, you know, tell your kids one day kind of thing. And yeah, also bonds you with your tribe and the people that are helping you. And it didn't, it doesn't really last that long, at least not, at least not for us. And like, you know, we're here to try to help people not make the mistakes that we did. But even when we did make a bunch of mistakes, you know, the hardship was really only for probably the first couple of years, like two and a half years kind of thing. And it's pretty comfortable now.

Jill: 18:11

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. It doesn't last forever. Even though it might feel like at the beginning, it's actually a pretty short window of time in the long run. Yeah. Okay. So that was the big, one of the big elephants in the room is how do you find lands? And then let's take it to the other angle. Someone has a piece of land in mind, but they're trying to figure out how to come with the fu come up with the finances to make it happen. What advice would you give to them?

Jaymie: 18:37

Yeah. On the financial side. So, I mean, first I think on like the land finding side, the way that we look at it and help clients is I think there's like the how to find land and then there's how to assess it to make sure that it's like actually the right land for you and is going to work for your needs. So first off, I always tell people like, if you don't have a plan, then you're not even ready to begin looking for land. You need to create a bit of a plan first, because if you don't know what you're doing on it, then you don't have any way to know if that property is actually right for you. Like if you want to go out there and you buy land and then all of a sudden, two years later, you, you, you decide I want 400 head of cattle. Well, your well might not be good enough for that, or if you decide that you want, you know, to grow a certain type of thing and you're like, well, your climate and your son and like, everything might not be right for that. So you need to know what you're going to do with it, or even like land zoning is another really big one. You want to go out there and like live with multiple families like a lot of our clients do kind of thing and like have a multi generational thing. Well, if you want to build a certain amount of structures, you pick the land wrong. The wrong land zoning, then you just don't get to do that. So you have to have that plan in place and know what you want to do before you even begin kind of going through the process. But generally we have a bit of a funnel system for finding the location of a property. So first we started a really high level. So very broad questions like, you know things that you might want to grow because if you want to grow avocados, then you're probably not going to be coming to Canada. And then the other thing, so that would be like climate. And the other thing might be like even political climate is, is one, like if you have certain, you know, beliefs or, or whatever that you align with, well, that might gravitate you towards different areas of a country, even different areas of the world. So that's going to like help you select a more general region. And then once you get into that, then you'd want to start looking at proximity to local towns and cities. So for us, we would prefer to be within two hours of a large city, large city being something that you can essentially. How to get anything that you need from so like if you need specialty car or specialty machine parts or something like that, you know, a machine breaks down and you're gonna if you have to drive eight hours to get a part and then you get back and you use it, you realize it's the wrong part and then you have to go, you know, like it just that really sucks. And then within 30 minutes of a small town, preferably that you're able to get food and fuel at a bonus would be like a building materials store kind of deal. So that's, that's usually what we're going for. Thank you. Because and that's kind of makes a little bit easier because you can actually go on a map and just draw a circle around the larger populated areas and then smaller circles around the other things and just kind of like see where they overlap. And then you start to see where you might be able to find stuff that's available the next. I would then get into land zoning. Where you would like find the right land zoning for you, and you can actually look that up on government maps. It's mandatory that the that the government provides these maps, so you can either go on their websites and if you can't find it on their website and their footer, then you can email them and they have to send them to you. So those are, you can, some of them are more user friendly than others. But some of them are quite easy and actually have a list of land zoning and when you know, which land zoning you want, you can just toggle it on and it'll highlight it on the map and you can just see exactly where that land zoning is. So we actually just built a product because it can get a little time consuming when you're going like county by county. Like it can take some time. So we actually just put together a product in the last couple of months. We had somebody working full time to basically list and map out. All of the no zoning and unrestricted land zoning in the, in all of North America. So that people can, it's, it's the ultimate zoning that you can do anything you want. You can build a thousand homes on it. You can have anybody living there. You can put, you can run a business without a business license and like all sorts of, you know, amazing things for somebody who's looking for that freedom oriented lifestyle. So yeah, that's the land zoning that we have. And one of the benefits of why we wanted the property in the first place, um, and then you would go into like an assessment list, which, you know, would start with just a bunch of different things to look at, like, what's the well look like? What's the gallons per minute on the well? Can you drill a well? What is if you can't drill a well? Then you should go talk to your you should get a water map so you can look at your neighbor's wells from the local county. You should also go to the local well drillers and they should be able to tell you what gallons per minute that, because they probably remember drilling your neighbor's wells. And they should be able to tell you a bit about water quality and a little bit about the depth of the wells and a little bit about. The bedrock, which equates to how expensive the well drilling might be. And yeah, so you're going to want to go through a bunch of different things on there, like terrain, south facing for sun, like, you know, soil tests. I personally like to have a permaculture designer come out and assess the property for water catchment and all sorts of different things they can tell you. All sorts of stuff that like when I walk around with we've had probably eight different permaculture designers working on our project so far, I learned so much. They look at the land in a totally different way than the average person does. And you probably learned so, so much. So definitely valuable to pay 1500 bucks and have somebody come out and Do a assessment of the property with you. So you know what you're getting into before you make potentially one of the largest buying decisions in your life. So yeah, there's more to the land assessment stuff. So when you finally find something that is you know, what is suitable for what you're trying to do, then we get into how to Raise the funds to do that. So we have a couple of different methods. And the first one is like find cheap land that you can afford. Just straight up. The second one is the BERS is, is like basically a rural version of the BERS method. So the BERS method stands for buy, renovate, rent, refinance. And that is a very common real estate investing method. In suburban real estate and city related real estate, but we didn't see people really applying that to rural land, even though the numbers work out a lot better. So I'll explain what the average relationship is with the Burr's method, the Burr's method, people go into a city or suburban area and they'll buy a house. For let's say 500, 000 bucks and the investor person will put all the money down for the entire down payment, which is usually around 15 percent something like that, and they will co sign for the mortgage. So they were essentially by the house. They get 50 percent ownership of it. And then the manager. which in this case would be us. We would also take 50 percent ownership of it. And we would be the ones that would manage the renovation of it, manage putting a renter in it, aka generating income off of it. And then they wait like 10, 20 years for the market to go up. And also for the value to go up from a little bit from the renovations. And then they refinance it, take the money out of the mortgage and then buy another one and they keep doing that over and over again. So we looked at that model and we tried to just simply apply it to rural land. Which actually makes a lot more sense from both sides, because why would, why would an investor do that with you? Why would a mortgage partner come in and basically buy land for you and give you ownership of it? Well, one is because you're paying most of the mortgage. They're just putting the down payment down up front. And then over the next 30 years, you're paying the majority of the mortgage. So that in and of itself makes sense, but they're doing it also for cashflow and equity. So those two things When you compare rural land to suburban properties, they are way better in both of those areas. So, let's say, let's talk cash flow first. If you go and buy a suburban property, you either just rent out the house, or maybe you have a house and a suite in the basement or something, so you get two renters in it. Well, we have 160 acres, I could put a thousand renters out here. The only reason you can't on a suburban property is because you run out of space and you're also not really supposed to be like, it's not like you can grow enough carrots in your backyard to make a profit, you know, whereas like I would hear you could do anything. You could do dozens of different types of farming. You could have goats or have honey or, you know, like whatever, like meat birds, like. Layers, like whatever you like cattle, like, like whatever you want, you could do like all sorts of things. You can do land tours. You can do Airbnb and short term rentals. You can do storage. People just store their stuff because they don't have anywhere else to put it. Like there's, there's a million and one different things that you can do out here that you simply can't do on a suburban property. So your, your cashflow capability, your cashflow potential to make money on the land is massively higher than suburban property. And the second is equity. So We actually know some people that flip rural land. So what they do is they go in and they buy barren land that has nothing on it. No well, anything. And they pay like 20 grand to drill a well. And they know how to do their research to know if they're going to hit water or not, or be like relatively sure you can never be absolutely certain, but they're like. Pretty sure they're going to hit water. So they'll pay the 20 grand, they'll drill the well, no pump in it, no pump house, literally just a hole in the ground with a pipe in it and a cap on it. That's it. And then they sell it for a hundred thousand dollars more. So that's a 5x return because they just, they put 20k in and that 20k made it worth 100, 000 more. So that's five times what the investment is well, what the money is that they put into it. Whereas if you, if you go into a suburban house and you flip a suburban house they pretty, what they're doing is they're taking something from an eight to a 10, right? They're taking a rundown house and they're putting paint on it and they're changing some you know, faucets and like some cosmetics and they're, they're making it nicer. So they're not addressing any human needs. They're usually just addressing human wants. They're just making it nicer. So it's bringing it from an eight to a 10. Whereas with rural land, when you're starting with a barren piece of property, you're taking it from a zero to an eight. So you have way more points of value to offer because right now there's no, you can't, it's unusable. So you're, you're, you're turning it into something that is usable and you're getting the water, you're getting the power, you're getting the dwellings and structures so that it's actually usable piece of property. So because of that, if you go, invest 1 into a renovation on a suburban place, you probably get about 1. 30, 1. 50 out, whereas we get, if you invest, you know, 1, we probably get 5 out based on that example with the well, so you just get, you get a higher investment return on the money that you actually invest into the infrastructure on a barren piece of property than you do compared to a suburban piece of property. So with those two metrics, The Burr's method of investing actually is easier to get people more interested in rural land than it is For them to go buy a house in the city, which hundreds of thousands of people do every single day So if you if they're doing that then you can definitely get somebody to help you out with rural land And it's also a little easier because I think it's just this dream right like everybody Everybody would love to be able to say that they have this cabin property that they can go, you know, take their kids to or whatever, right? And just escape to sometimes. And even, and especially if they don't even like, if they don't have to do the work and you're the one out there doing the work and taking care of it and stuff, like that's pretty sweet. That's a sweet deal. So yeah. So that's, that's the other method. And the third method is owner financing, which is essentially what discount lots does. But discount lots, for example, they don't have all the land, right? They only have a small like a, what's it called? A category, a small catalog of properties for you to choose from. But you can actually go out and do it yourself. So what you can do is you can use a software like PropStream. There's other ones out there, but PropStream is just a good example and a common example, and it shows you all this crazy real estate data. So it'll show you who bought a property, how long they owned it, what they bought it for, what the mortgage was, and it'll calculate whether or not they have a mortgage anymore. So then you can use that to find, you can narrow it down and be like, okay, I'm going to look at. Properties that have no mortgage on them at all. And what you can do is you can then send a piece of mail to that person. And sometimes they actually get your, their email and phone number and all sorts of stuff. So you could send a piece of the mail's more, the most common way of contacting them. You can send some mail and you can basically say, write, write it, just write it like a passionate letter of like, here's what I want to do and why I want to do it. Because these people, often you find somebody who's in a situation where they bought this land. 60 years ago for pennies on the dollar, they bought it for like 20, 000. And now it's worth like 500, 000. And their kids don't want it. Their kids are living in the city. Then you have black rock coming around trying to buy up all these properties. And you know, they don't want it to go to some conglomerate. They just want a family to come and do something good with it. They want somebody who actually cares and gives a shit about the world and about the community. So you find somebody like that. And you, you do that by volume, you send out, not, not 30 letters. You send out 300 letters, you send out a thousand letters if you have to. And then you get replies back. You get people calling you back and they say, yeah, I'd be down. I'd be down to, to to do an owner financing deal. And what that means is that there's no banks involved. It means that you can negotiate. A much lower down payment and oftentimes no doubt or I should say sometimes no down payment at all where you can basically get in and you can do like a rent to own where you just get in and you start paying a couple grand a month and you get to live on this property and build it out. And the cool thing about that is then we help you cash flow the property and generate income on it so that the income on the land actually pays for the land.

Jill: 32:33

Yeah that was a brilliant segue to my next question. But before I get into that part, I, is PropStream a U. S. based website or a Canadian or both?

Jaymie: 32:42

It is US based. I am actually unsure if they do Canadian stuff, but, uh, there's another site. If, if somebody just Googled PropStream alternatives in Canada, there's some stuff that comes up. One of them, one of them has the word red in it, like red line or something. I don't know. It's red something. And that's, that's like a Canadian alternative.

Jill: 33:02

Okay. Awesome. Yeah. I think most of my, my listeners are U. S., but I do have a good number of Canadians. So I just want to double check. So, okay. I love those three options. And that makes so much sense about the flipping, sometimes being more lucrative in the rural places than suburbia, which I'd never thought of it like that, but it's super logical. So I love that idea of how you were talking of going from eight to 10 versus zero to eight. It's a huge difference. So that's a huge, huge paradigm shift for me just to think of it in that way.

Jaymie: 33:33

Sometimes you can stack those things too, right? Like if you go and you find a good owner financing deal and then you also find somebody interested in coming up with a bit of money and helping you, you know, be a partner in that then it's, it makes it even better of a deal because you come to them and say, Hey, look, I got a really good deal on this property from somebody. Do you want to come in on it with me? You know, we, we have an example of a client, FJ, he's in Pennsylvania. He started going out and he looked at dozens and dozens and dozens of property. He looked at almost every property in like his entire, I think it was either his entire County. Like he was driving all over the place. For 18 months, he almost gave up. Finally he finds this one property that he thought wasn't going to be the one, which is funny. Cause I actually hear that quite a lot. Everyone just like doesn't look at this one property. And then they finally do. And they're like, This is it. And he got in touch with the landowner, which is really important. We always try to get in touch with the landowner and encourage our clients to because Things like this happen. And what happened was he just started talking and he told his story. He told his story to the previous owner. And it was just like what his vision was for what he wanted to do with it. She loved it so much. She reduced the price by 400, 000. Down, it was, I think it was like 1. 1 million down to like 000 and also gave them 200, 000 worth of heavy equipment, including a bulldozer, a truck, a tractor, like all sorts of stuff, ready to go full tool shed already outfitted. So if you went to somebody and said, Hey, look, I got this really good deal. You want to go in on this with me and use the Burs and layer the Burs method on top of that to be able to get some help into it, it makes it a better deal for everybody. So. Telling your vision, telling your story and connecting with people. Human to human is a really big part of it. We see it all the time. Like our clients always have really amazing, cool stories and you never know who's out there. You just got to start moving and start talking to people.

Jill: 35:24

Yeah, taking that action. That's the key. That's a cool story. So you, you alluded a little bit to this idea of being able to bring in cashflow from a property. I know that's the dream for many of those in my audience, many homesteaders. I see most of my crew, their initial thought is I'm going to get the homestead and I'm going to be able to quit my nine to five from selling soap and eggs. And I usually will tell them, I love your drive, but I don't think it's going to work like you think it's going to work. So can you speak a little to that? I know you have some really creative, you've already kind of hinted at some of them, creative, unique ways to think of making your land profitable, but maybe not necessarily in the soap and egg realm.

Jaymie: 36:02

Yeah. So we have I mean, I want to go over a couple of different models here because there's some really cool things that our clients are doing right now. Some big things that would let you retire for the rest of your life and never work again. And then some like more ongoing things that you can just continue running. And a big part of this, I'm going to go over two things. First, we have a saying, we just say treat it like a business. And we don't say that from like a corporate perspective of like, you know, hate your job. No, you're not building a job. You're building something. We, we want to work with things that are highly automatable so that we can automate them or near like nearly automate them. It's never truly automated. You still have to put a little bit of effort in. But for example, we have some glamping tents up. And after we built them and rented them for a few months, we then had live work exchange folks come in and manage them for us. And now we have, we have paid staff on site that manage them for us. I haven't touched those in, in like two and a half years. Since we, since like, and we've only been, we're going in on year, like three and a half. So I touch them for like the first year. And after that, I haven't, I haven't touched them at all. And they've just been doing their thing. So like, it's, it's, it's relatively very automated, but sure. I've had to like do a bit of management you know, probably an hour and a half, two hours of management with the staff on site a week. Which is pretty low for, you know, what we're able to make with that. And like order a mattress here and there, like, just like, you know, random, random things. So that's what I mean by like, I try to make it like nearly automated. So we, when we say treat it like a business, we really just mean take it seriously. Because a lot of people come into this like a fairy tale fantasy, right? And we're just like, if you don't plan, then you might get completely screwed. Like you have to treat this seriously and like actually make decisions appropriately and have systems for your decision making process and go get advisors that you can learn from before you start. Like get them now, start building a team now so that you know who to talk to when something goes wrong. Yeah, like there's, so what that starts with is for one, getting the plan out of your head onto paper so that you can organize your thoughts. Because if you can't organize your thoughts, then how are you ever going to communicate your thoughts to anybody else? And then, you know, then the next step is doing exactly that is communicating your vision to somebody else, because you're going to need help. You're always going to need help, whether you need help with the money or not, you're going to need help physically, you're going to need help to attract, you know, other people to be a part of this, unless you literally want to go build a cabin and just sit in the forest by yourself, like then you can totally do that. But yeah, so one would be taken seriously. And the next thing is that we, like. Stepping off of that is we use a tool called cost benefit analysis, and that's what we use to decide on what we're going to do first. And I say that specifically because it's not what you're going to do. It's what you're going to do first. And I mean that you can do anything that you want. You can sell soap, you can sell eggs, but what you do first matters. Because if you start by selling soap. You might never really get anywhere else, and you might go bankrupt. So, let's maybe sell what's best first. And then we'll sell soap down in the future when it makes more sense to do that. So you know, for example, what that looks like is in one column, you would basically take a spreadsheet out or a sheet of paper. And in the first column, you would write down all of your ideas. So you want to have eggs. You want to. Your soap. You want to host the odd retreat. You want to do some glamping rentals, put up some glamping tents and rent those out. You want to rent some space. If you're doing that, you may as well rent some space out for other people to host retreats because now you have the infrastructure to do it. Maybe you want to. Rent out some long term spots on your land for people to park a tiny home and come and have affordable housing. Maybe you want to, you know, have honeybees. Maybe you want to raise rabbits. Maybe you want like you have cattle, like the farming side, there's like dozens and dozens of things. So like there's lots there. We have people with all sorts of plans and ideas coming in. So you list all of those out and then in the next column, you, you list the cost, just a general cost. How much is it going to cost me to get this up and going?

Jill: 40:23

not a

Jaymie: 40:24

And then in the next column, you write down how much money is this going to make me every month or every year.

Jill: 40:30

stipend that we use

Jaymie: 40:31

And then you run a, you basically just run a ratio on those two numbers, the input versus the output. And you just start to see like, if I, if I want to build a farm, it's going to cost me a million dollars to build this farm. And I'm going to make 200 grand a year. Or it's going to cost me 200 grand to build some glamping rentals. And it's going to make me 200 grand a year. So which one, you know, with farming, it's going to take you five years to get paid back with glamping. It's going to take you one. So there's your ratio. There's your decision. You go with the one that makes more money faster, and then you can reinvest that money. Into your farm because the other thing is not a lot of people have a million dollars to build out the farm, right? So if you do what is the lowest cost first? It's the most effective use of your funds and then you're able to reallocate that faster and actually build up more so maybe the first one is Glamping. And then the second one is hosting some retreats. And then the third one is, you know, renting out space for storage or some other events or something like that. Now you have three forms of cash flow and you're going to invest all of those into having cattle. And then into having like laying hens and then into having, you know, what, whatever else it might be. And it starts to compound because you go from just one form of revenue to two to three, and then it gets you to four or five, six, seven way faster than anybody else. And, you know, an example that I often use is that I live rurally, I drive by neighbors. I drive by people all the time, people that have been doing this for 30 years. And they're, they're still, they're still at the very beginning. They're, they're still doing everything themselves and it looks really hard. They're building everything. They're managing all of their own animals. They're managing all of the stuff that they're growing. They're doing all the hay. They're like, they're out there just like having a really rough go. They're doing all their own firewood. It's a full time job. It's a, it's a, it really is a full time job. And we're up here and I can, I'm only in year three. And we can come and go as we please. We got our firewood ready, you know, we got income coming in, we got brand new tiny homes, we're not living in a half torn down cabin, you know, like things are comfortable, and they're cruising along, and that's the only reason for that is because we use this cost benefit analysis to be able to strategize what we do first. And we're gonna do it all, and we're working on doing it all, and we're You know, we have full time permaculture consultant on site that works with us to build out the farm. We have heavy machinery. We're digging, we're digging a man made lake right now. We're doing 35 ponds. Like we got big projects going on. So not only has. Has that allowed us to be more comfortable? But it's allowed us to really shoot for that big grand dream and that big vision that we really want to hit

Jill: 43:19

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And one, another piece of that I think, cause I, I think about that a lot with. especially in the homestead world, kind of what you described where there's people who've been doing it for 30 years, but they're still managing all themselves. They're still struggling. It's still a slog every day. I think, I don't know if you see it in your clients, but I see it in my audience. I think that sometimes we as homesteaders, we put a badge of honor. It's like, I'm going to DIY to the death. And it's like, there's almost this pride in like, my chores took four hours. And I do it twice a day. And when I see that, I'm like, I think we can create leverage. So you're not like living in your barn, doing chores your whole life. So, cause I want, I want to see people be able to progress. Like you were talking about, like we get this level figured out and then we get to do the next thing and the next thing. But what advice would you have to someone who's struggling with letting go, with outsourcing, with I think sometimes people keep their mindset, keeps them into that. Like I kind of got to be the martyr of the barnyard. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Jaymie: 44:14

Yeah, I mean, I think there's I see and the people that I talk to is a lot of fear of getting help because of just the horror stories that exist when trying to get help and just the lack of familiarity or experience with running an effective and enjoyable team. You know, for every horror story that you hear, like the human mind is just biased to negativity, right? But for, but for every like negative experience, there's, there's positive ones as well. Like, I love my team. It's, it's like, it feels like a very communal, it feels like family up there. We all enjoy it. Our team comes to us and says, when I started working with you guys, I wanted to do this on my own. My five year plan was to go buy land next door and do it and do it on my own. And they're like, now that I've been here for a year, they're like, I don't ever want to leave. I want to, I want to do this with you guys because it's better together. Like doing it together is just better for everybody involved. So it's, it's a really good experiences, enjoyable experience, and it's an easier, easier time. But people just need to learn the systems on figuring out exactly how to do that. So for us, we had a couple of phases and the first phase was live work exchange because we couldn't pay anybody. We hadn't, we didn't have enough income at the time to actually, to actually pay people. So the live work exchange was a mandatory phase because we needed the help very badly. But if once you can get out of that phase, I would much rather pay people because it's a much easier relationship and you get better work and you get full time work and all of that stuff. So but live work exchange. Was very easy to get and basically we just you have to have like a real hiring process a real Application process for people and our application process. I'm pretty proud of we have a lot of really good people on our team We're pretty happy with them. So With that, what we do is we basically use a Google form. It's free. Anybody can do it in like five minutes. And we ask two types of questions. The first type of question is alignment questions. And the second type of question is problem solving questions. And alignment questions are just simple things like, you know, if you could recommend three books to, that you think everybody in the world should read, what would those be? And you know, just a few little things like that, where you start to like, just see what they're like, like personality wise, or like, you know, asking about their upbringing, what was your upbringing like, you know, just whatever that kind of stuff. Like you can really see what someone's interested in. And if you would like to hang out with that person on a regular basis that's pretty much all that's for now. The really important part is the problem solving side. Now there's two sides of this. I'll give a direct example. This is a real example from our property. So. We want to use the application. To get people to think through real life scenarios on our property to see what they would actually do before they ever even show up on site or even know where we live. So uh, one question on ours for a general caretaker on the property was, okay, there's a big tree that's dead. And it's, it's a hazard to people cause it could fall over at any time. So we need to take it down, lay out the steps for exactly what you would do and, and why you would do that. And then you get all sorts of different answers where you get one person's like. I take the chain. So I go cut it down. Another person says I would get a chain or a rope and I would bring the machine over and I would pull it to one side to make sure it's going to fall safely to one side. And then I'm going to, you know, take it down. And then I'm going to buck it up and I'm going to make, I'm going to mill some of it and we can use that lumber. And then I'm going to chop some of it up for you know, firewood for the larger stoves. And then I'm also going to chop some of the limbs up for firewood for the mini stoves in the tiny homes. And then everything else I'm going to put, I'm going to turn into mulch, or we're going to turn that into compost. So who has better experience between those two examples? Like it's, it's a, it's abundantly obvious who has more experience in that and just who can think through things more. And that's just the beginning. So that's step one of problem solving. Step two is we don't hire people who we have to hold their hand. We hire people who can problem solve on their own and create systems behind them. So the next one with the next question is now that you've done that in your head, you've now you've taken this tree down in your head. Now pretend that we had a live work exchange person living on site and they were working under you and you needed to train them to do this task. create a training system in a step by step list to train this person or tell us what your training system would look like. And then they basically build a training system for the next person. And what that, what that forces them to do is it forces them to think through their own actions. It forces them to actually create a system out of it that they can communicate to somebody else, which means that they're an effective communicator. It means they can lead others and it means they can create a system behind them so that if they ever leave, Then you have all this system. You have a training there. You're basically having somebody create your own internal training so that the next time we hire a caretaker. Well, we just give them this training before they even show up. And now there's, they're trained on all the things that we do on our property. So that's, that's an example of a simple application process. That that, that we've done. And a big thing we have is people say, how do you find people? Finding people is easy. It's how do you find the right people? How do you filter those people out? If you want to find people, what we did is we went on Facebook marketplace. And we posted up a photo of a trailer just on our lot. And we said, this could be you. You come live here. You bring your own house, because we don't, we can't afford to pay for houses for people yet. You bring your own house and you basically live for free. And and you get to, you just work for a few hours a day kind of thing. And that was our LiveWorker exchange program. And when we did that, we got like 600 applicants in like three weeks. I had to take the post down because I was getting like super overwhelmed by everybody messaging me. So there's a really easy way to go get a bunch of free applicants without having to advertise for a job posting or anything. People love it. And we had lots of like qualified people. Yeah, we had people that had ran like full provincial parks and campgrounds for like 35 years with like crazy outback experience and stuff and like professional red seal tradesmen, like people, like actually skilled people.

Jill: 50:41

That's incredible. I love what I see so much. I think it's from your entrepreneurial experience before you started this. You're bringing some of those business systems into this world, which is often sorely lacking, but it's, I think it's why you've been so successful because it makes a big difference and it can be so simple and obvious, you know, like hire people who don't need their handheld, but sometimes in these other worlds, people who aren't used to that business atmosphere, it's, it's a revelation. I know it was for me when we started, you know, a decade ago, so. It's, it's good stuff, it's simple, but it's not always obvious when we're in this, coming into this for the first time.

Jaymie: 51:12

Yeah, another really good one. Just like a couple tips for people. One is, we never use residential rental agreements. We always use commercial lease agreements. Residential rental agreements can they're kind of scary a little bit. People are often scared of having people on their land because they think they'll never leave. And it's because residential rental agreements actually give the renter more rights than you have to your own land. Whereas commercial lease agreements, you can kindly and respectfully ask that person to leave at any time for whatever reason. So that's why we do that. And then another one is a, is a, how we manage people after they're hired is really big. The system that we use is called EOS. The book is called, What the Heck is EOS? It's called the Entrepreneurial Operating System. And it lays out everything for you and everything for your staff. So the book in and of itself is a little training book. It's about this big. It's just a little book. And when you have somebody join you, the first thing you do is you order one of these books and you give it to them. And they read it and the book trains them. So you don't have to, the book tells them exactly how to communicate with you and why it's better to do it like that. And all sorts of stuff. It's, it's really, really, really, really good. And that's how we manage our team in a couple hours a week. We do a one and a half hour meeting on every, every Monday morning. So everybody knows what they're doing for the week. And we do like. 10 minute huddles every morning. So everybody knows what they're doing for the day. And eventually you can level out of that and have a team leader that's running those daily meetings. And it covers things like, what do you go over in the meeting? It covers things like, what do people do when they have a problem? They just ping your cell phone. They just call you or they yell at you or they come and knock on your door. So you're constantly just getting pissed off and getting negative, shitty news all the time from your staff that are just like, it's stupid. So with, with EOS, there's something called an issues list. So you never talk to me about an issue, unless it's urgent, unless it's absolutely urgent, like the farm's going to burn down right now, or somebody died, or somebody got seriously injured. Like, basically, if you have an issue, you put it on the issues list, and then you shut up about it, and then we talk about it on Monday, and every Monday, then we calmly and concisely go over the issues in the issues list, and, and everything, every issue you put. Needs to come with three possible solutions. If you don't put a solution in there, we will not cover the issue and you're fired. That's,

Jill: 53:38

I really like that.

Jaymie: 53:40

because, because everybody just, basically we have like a zero complaint rule. There's no, no complaining allowed ever. And if you bring us an issue without a solution, it counts as a complaint. So you have to think about a solution first and oftentimes when the people actually get in that mindset, they've already solved it

Jill: 53:59

Yep, yep. I like that we have a, in addition to everything else we do, we have a small restaurant that is a long story, but

Jaymie: 54:07

Oh, that's super

Jill: 54:08

yeah, it's cool and crazy, but this week, especially, we've been just having lots of staff stuff happening and I'm just like, I'm like, I need to get this book, like yesterday, because I think that some of this would be helpful just with not pinging my cell phone every time. small. That's, that's key. So I'm going to go get that book. That's an excellent recommendation. But yeah, good for any team, whether you're a restaurant team, a homestead team, a farm team. I think that's great advice.

Jaymie: 54:33

Yeah, and and honestly Like our feedback from our team is huge because everybody felt really unorganized before So it's not only for you, it's like, it's literally for everybody. Like everybody feels so much better and so much more organized because when they don't know what to do, you frustrate your staff, you frustrate your team. And everybody's running around getting pissed off at each other and nobody knows why. And it's like, you know, so with this, it's like, everybody loves it. And people really enjoy the working environment. And then it becomes fun. Like that's, that, that's the difference between having like a stressful team and like actually having fun with your job and with your day to day.

Jill: 55:08

Yes. I think, yeah, that piece of, like you said, it's amazing when they just don't, when the staff doesn't know. Just the simplest thing they don't know can throw everyone into a tizzy. I've learned that the hard way. It's, it's fascinating human nature. So yeah, good, good skills to learn. I think people's skills are always good to learn, but they're hard to grasp sometimes.

Jaymie: 55:26

Yeah,

Jill: 55:27

So I just realized we're rolling up on time. I know you have a lot going on, so I want to be respectful of this amazing hour you've allotted us. I think my, my question, just to wrap this up, I feel like we could go for a whole nother hour cause you are a wealth of knowledge. I love how your brain works. I love the systems and how you move through what you do. And we're going to talk about in just a second about how people can continue to connect with all your incredible frameworks and systems and content. But just to put a, a nice little bow on it, what do you think is the biggest mistake, the number one biggest mistake that people make when they're coming into buying land, finding land, making income from land, what do you see as like the pitfall that just gets people time and time again?

Jaymie: 56:07

not making a plan. If people talk about it, but they don't know what to do. So I'll just give everybody the first step right now. You, you make a plan. The first step is you make a plan because if it's vague for you and you don't know what that next step is, then you won't take it. And then you'll never live the lifestyle that you want and it'll forever live in the back of your head as a dream. So take that and put it down on paper. And what that looks like, the three elements of that is a pitch deck, financial projections, and a business plan. The business plan, I actually don't really give a shit about. You could just do the pitch and financials the pitch day between the two, like. A business plan is basically a summary of a pitch deck and your financial projections. And now I know that sounds businessy, but like, I, I tried to think this through, like I'm a hippie at heart. I just happened to like, have have had business experience. And not really corporate. It's always just been my my own thing. But I've tried to look for other tools and I can't find them. So why reinvent the wheel? These are tools that people have been using to organize information, and that's all I'm doing with them. So and we offer a business plan package where this where it's our exact business plan that we used to get funded to get the land to execute our vision with all the real numbers from our actual project in it. And it's all pre filled out. So you can just make tweaks and edit it and like punch your own numbers in and stuff. So people want that. We have that available, but yeah, I mean, essentially when you do that and you start running that, the financials is really like, what are the costs going to be? And when are you going to spend that money? And when are you going to do the things that you say you're going to do? And the, and the pitch is like the communication side. The pitch is kind of like, what do you want it to visually look like? It's kind of like a vision board, but also with a little bit more detail in it. What do you want it to look like? What do you want to do with it? And that vision is key because it helps you start to tell your story because a lot of people like don't really know exactly what to say to others. But when you do that, you'll get in the habit of curating your story in a way that makes sense, not just to you, but to other people. And that's when it, that's when all the magic starts happening. Because when you communicate that other people are understanding you, other people want to help you, and then you start to build a team and actually start to move forward. So I would say biggest mistake for that I see people make is just simply. Not getting their thoughts down on paper.

Jill: 58:29

I agree. Yep. So, moral of the story, y'all. Make a plan. Put it on paper. Simple, but important. Okay. I like it. That's a good action item for people to take away. So how can people get more of the amazing systems that you have created? Cause you have a lot. I was looking through your stack of offerings before we got on the call and it's impressive what you've created. So kind of give us a bird's eye view and where can people enter into that? Cause there's a lot there.

Jaymie: 58:56

Yeah, yeah, so we have like our flagship program, which includes pretty much everything. Like it's it's everything from, you know, building your plan, to yeah, finding land, to assessing the property, to raising the funds to buy it, to generating income on it. To designing it once you're on it to structural stuff and infrastructure and how to save money on solar power and structures and all the rest. Machinery equipment like food growth, like all sorts of stuff. So everything's in that and That's that program right now is 397 with, we do offer payment plans as low as like 77 where, and if you can't afford that, let us know, like, we're just here to help people out. And then we do have a VIP group as well. If you wanted like more like to actually talk to me, you can talk to me twice a month on that. It's relatively affordable as well. I think it's like somewhere around like 67 a month or like 600 a year or something like that. So yeah, those are, those are the options for the main course, but I really think a good starting point for people, if they don't want to, you know, spend that much is we have a book, we call it our strategy handbook. And we, we built that to talk about a lot of the strategy we talked about on this call today, but there's, there's more. So I think there's about 50 chapters in that. It's a small, quick read. And it's there to basically get you inspired and get your, get your brain turning. Get your ideas flowing to make you realize that this is possible for you and give you options on how this is possible and how you can actually take action to get there. And that book, we have a free plus shipping offers so you can get digital copy or you can get a physical copy shipped to your door. And that's a great way to just kind of get introduced to, to what we do and how we can help you out.

Jill: 1:00:35

Awesome. And we're going to have that link down in the show notes for you guys to grab that strategy book and that will help you connect with Jamie and their incredible. Cause you guys have gone above and beyond. I actually have seen, I think I've seen your ads for, for a long time. And then when I had one of your team members reach out, I'm like, Oh, you're those guys cause you're, you're marketing is brilliant and it's relatable and authentic. And so I instantly knew who you were. So well done. I appreciate a good marketing campaign.

Jaymie: 1:01:04

Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, we

Jill: 1:01:07

yeah, you're not just marketing fluff either. You're marketing something that's substantial and real. And that's, I think what makes it so good.

Jaymie: 1:01:13

thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. I love your stuff. Thank you for hosting Today and for everything that you're providing for everybody

Jill: 1:01:21

Absolutely. Yeah. My pleasure. Well, thank you again for joining me and sharing so much of your brilliance. And I can't wait for my audience to connect with you more throughout your various content paths. So yeah. Thank you again for being here and y'all we'll catch up with you on the next episode of the old fashioned on purpose podcast.

Jaymie: 1:01:37

beautiful