S13 E14: Pasture to Freezer: What You Need to Know Before You Process Your Home-Raised Pigs

He's back! I had SO much positive feedback from my first interview with lard evangelist Charles Mayfield, I had to have him join me for another conversation. Last time we talked all things pastured pork, so this time we're talking next steps.

It's everything you need to know about butchering your home-raised pigs, finding a processor, scalding & scraping, rendering lard, and making homemade skincare rolled into one epic episode!

Learn more about Charles Mayfield here: https://farrow.life/

 Learn more about Charles Mayfield products (with a discount) here: https://lardforthewin.com/   

Listen to our first discussion about raising pigs here: https://www.theprairiehomestead.com/tph_podcasts/season-12-episode-4-pastured-pork-is-possible-even-on-the-prairie 

Learn more about Genuine Beef Co. here: https://genuinebeefco.com/

Order my NEW book Old-Fashioned on Purpose now and get exclusive bonuses! http://oldfashionedbook.com/

Have a message you want to share with the world? Apply to be a guest on the Old-Fashioned on Purpose podcast here: https://www.theprairiehomestead.com/podcast-guest-application

Weekly musings from my homestead: http://theprairiehomestead.com/letter

My essays on an old-fashioned life: www.prairiephilosophy.com

My homesteading tutorials & recipes: www.theprairiehomestead.com

Our Wyoming-raised, grass-finished beef: http://genuinebeefco.com

Jill on Twitter: http://twitter.com/homesteader

Jill on Instagram: @jill.winger

Jill on Facebook: http://facebook.com/theprairiehomestead

Transcript

Jill: 0:00

Hey friend, welcome back to the old fashioned on purpose podcast. So I have a repeat guest today. He was so good the first time I had to have him back. We're talking about a slightly different topic. Last time he was here, we talked about pastured pork. You probably know who I'm talking about. The one And only Charles Mayfield. And I got so much positive feedback and he's so. easy to talk to, honestly, that I wanted to have him back to take a slightly different angle. Today, we're going to still be talking about pigs, but we're going to talk about next steps. Last time we talked about how to raise the pork sustainably. And if you haven't heard that episode, go ahead and listen to that one. We'll drop the number and all the info in the show notes. And then today we're talking about, okay, you've raised the pigs. What do you do next? Do you butcher at home? How to find a good butcher? And then we're going to dive into potentially my favorite part of these topics. And that is lard, rendering lard, differences in lard, lard breeds of pigs, all the lard. So Charles, welcome back. I'm so excited for this conversation. Transcripts

Charles: 0:59

Fantastic to be back with you, Jill. This is, this is a lot of fun. I enjoyed our last conversation looking to. Take it to the next level.

Jill: 1:07

Yes. So I think most people have heard that previous episode. They know you're a regenerative farming evangelist. I love that title, by the way, you're the founder of Pharaoh skincare, you're a farmer, but in case they haven't listened to that one, can you just give us a quick uh, intro of kind of your background and why you're so passionate about this topic?

Charles: 1:25

Sure. So yes, I was I was first introduced to regenerative farming in 2012 took a pilgrimage to polyface Farms in Virginia. This was a this was sort of through the paleo community My ex wife and I had just published our first cookbook, you know, Pharaoh is really like Cookbook meets gym meets farm meets skincare. And so, yeah, I, I was just the, the hooks went in deep. And so, uh, as you may know, uh, Joel's a prolific writer and so just started consuming as much of his material as possible, uh, in 2016, uh, moved. Up to Tennessee where I was born and raised to start it, start farming and got into, I would call it a micro polyface, uh, model. We were raising pasture, beef, pork, chicken, uh, eggs, and, uh, did that from 2016 and until very recently. Uh, so hung the farmer hat up in December, just not enough time in the day. But, uh, but yeah, it was, it was, uh, it was farming and just getting connected with the land and the animals. and, uh, stumbled upon, uh, lard as a, as a skincare ingredient in 2019 and, and, uh, have never looked back. We, we launched the company in, in 2022. And, um, yeah, I, I, I love being an evangelical regenerative farmer. It's, I think it's, I think it solves a lot of the problems that the, uh, That, that plague our, our modern world today, you know, climate, whether there's climate change or just general human health and certainly our ecology. And so, uh, Pharoah is really a, a consumer brand, uh, propped up and supported by a foundation of, of raising animals. In line with nature and building soil. And so, yeah, that's, that's me in a nutshell.

Jill: 3:25

So many good things there just right up the alley of our listeners. I know. Um. And yeah, I've been using your I told you this before we hit record, but I want the audience and I've been using your some of your skincare since our last interview. And I really like it like it's it's amazing. I use it this morning. In fact, like it's it's so good. And I love every time I put it on. I know that I'm not dealing with, you know, all the junk that's coming in so many the other face cream skincare. So it's good stuff, guys. We'll talk a little bit more about that at the end. But it's it's really good. I can attest and he's not paying me to say that. FYI. So

Charles: 4:00

Thank you. Thank you. We're, we're, we're very proud of our products. We don't, we don't have a lot of skews, you know, it's a, a little goes a long way and, and, uh, but yeah, no, it's, it's always. Always fun to hear people talk about how much they, they love the lard in their life. So

Jill: 4:15

yes. yes. I like that. Um, okay, so last time it was all things pastured pork. I had some great revelations on that episode. A lot of good info. Today we're talking next steps. So the pork has been pastured, it is ready. Now we are going to process said pork What do people need to know when they're at this point in the process? How, like maybe to start off, how do we know when we're ready to butcher these animals? I know there's certain weights that people talk about, but a lot of homesteaders don't have scales at home. So how would you recommend they kind of ballpark that.

Charles: 4:51

Yeah. So a good general ballparking rule is about eight months from birth, you'll have a market weight pig. And I define that as, you know, probably 300 pound live weight, maybe a little heavier, maybe a little lighter, but I think that's a good target for what I would deem a market weight pig. Now you can, you can harvest them certainly sooner than that, but eight months. And that's a, that's a good general rule across most breeds. You know, your Cooney Coonies are going to be a little smaller. I've never worked with Cooney Coonies, but yeah, yeah. I mean, as a general, general rule of thumb. Uh, I would say a standard market breed, even heritage breeds. You know, we can talk about mangaletes, old spots, red wattles, durox. Across the board, eight months is a good target. And, you know, I know we talked last time, Jill, about, especially at the homesteader level that. One of the nice things about a pig is you can take it from birth to, um, to market weight in under a year. And so get them in the spring, harvest them in the fall when it's, when it's, uh, cooler outside. And so, yeah, I think eight months is a good target, uh, for anybody.

Jill: 6:00

Okay, that's a good rule of thumb. So I think one of the biggest concerns for any homesteader raising meat animals, whether it's chicken, pork, beef, is butchering day. Um, not only just the emotions that can come with that, or sometimes that trepidation, but it's a big undertaking. Even butchering chickens can feel formidable, especially when we get into these larger animals. Um, it's a process. And if you've never butchered something before, it's It's a little bit intimidating. So how would you coach someone through, you know, the decision of do I butcher myself or do I try to outsource that?

Charles: 6:37

Sure. So, you know, the first easy question to ask. Is there a butcher, you know, within reasonable proximity to my land? Um, the, the, the nice thing about pigs is you can repurpose a landscape trailer. You know, most, most homesteaders have some form of trailer. And, uh, I never used a livestock trailer in the history of my pigs. We, we would always just fashion up a little. A little, um, gate and, and, and walls of like hog wire or even cattle panels around, just think about a regular landscape trailer and, and by the time the pigs are that old, you know, they're docile, you know, they know who you are. They don't get too nervous. And so transport's not difficult. Don't you don't have to have a livestock trailer You know depending on what you want out of a pig the one thing with the pig that is unique versus say a cow or even a Sheep or goat is if you're gonna do any curing especially of the hams Then you're gonna want the skin on and so a question to ask. Let's just say you've got a butcher you know, with, that's in a, within a reasonable distance, uh, do they scald and scrape? Okay. Uh, that is, that is the process as the name for, you know, you, you heat the skin up with hot water on a, on a pig and you scrape the hair off. And so that way you can leave the skin on. We can talk about some strategies for that at home, but that would be a big question for me if I were taking. You know, I've got, I've got three butchers within two hours of me that all do pigs and two of the three will scald and scrape. And so depending on what I want to do with the pig, uh, Really and truly around the hams. Uh, and, and this, this gets into the uni uniqueness of the pig, uh, in terms of, you know, you raise'em this year, but you're eating'em next year and the year after and the year after that.'cause you can, you can cure and, and smoke and hang those hams in, in, you know, non temperature regulated, you know, hell hang'em in a barn and so, Yeah, I, I would say that a good, a good rule of thumb for your listeners is the day you bring the pigs home is the day you start looking for butchers because you're going to want to go talk to them. I would even do a, do a site visit, you know, is the facility clean? Do the employees, are they good people? Uh, similar to how you treat a farmer, you know, just go shake their hand, talk through their process. I, I did have some early nightmarish stories in trying to find. a good quality butcher. Uh, but yeah, outside of that, I think, I think you can get a lot done with just Googling around and talking to other farmers. You know, if there's another homesteader or somebody else raising pigs in your area, ask them. I mean, I, you know, it's a, it's a good community and, and if there's a good pig butcher out there, uh, you'll want to know who they are. And so that's, that's one side of the coin. When you talk about if you want to butcher at home, uh, this is one of the great things about pigs. They're not as big as a cow. Now, again, market weight, 300 pounds. That's, that's a lot of, that's a lot of animal to you're not going to throw them over your shoulder like a goat or a sheep. And so as long as you've got out, as long as you've got like

Jill: 10:04

everything's going to

Charles: 10:05

a deer processing sort of set up, I think you can handle pigs just fine.

Jill: 10:09

be careful

Charles: 10:10

Um, but the Skalden's great. That's, that's what we got to talk about. So, uh, again, for your listeners that aren't familiar, you, you heat a bunch of water up. There's, I would, I would do some Googling on this. I've heard everything from the water's got to be 140 degrees to 160 degrees. I think all of that

Jill: 10:28

big,

Charles: 10:29

varies depending on your elevation. And all sorts of stuff like that. I think putting a little soap, like a dish soap in the water helps break the surface tension. But, um, but yeah, you're going to want to, again, if you, you can skin the hog, you can skin the whole thing out. You're just left with the meat, which is fine. And you're cutting up those hams or doing whatever you want with them. But if you're, if curing is. is in your lexicon of, of curiosity, then I would strongly encourage you to prepare yourself to do some scalding and scraping. Um, I've seen it done with just, so think about a big pot of water and some old, uh, kitchen towels. And so you put the towels over the pig and you pour the water on it. It's, it's, it's not more than a couple minutes worth of, of hot soaking.

Jill: 11:20

scaly

Charles: 11:21

then, and then the real work starts, you know, and, and

Jill: 11:23

maybe a

Charles: 11:24

just like with the raising of pigs, I think I mentioned, you know, buy a feeder, buy a waterer. Don't try and make these things on your own. Like pigs are very destructive, I would say when it comes to scalding and scraping.

Jill: 11:38

in

Charles: 11:39

15 bucks maybe, but go, go buy a bell scraper. Uh, you can find'em on Amazon. I'm sure you can find'em in other places, but get you a, a couple of real pig scrapers. And so, yeah. Um, That's, that's the number one concern at home. I mean, skinning and eviscerating is, is, uh, is, is the easy way out, but you're going to lose the ability to cure some of that meat.

Jill: 12:04

So you can't cure it if the skin is gone. You're not going to be able to cure,

Charles: 12:09

No, that I'm sorry. No, you can, you can still cure a whole bunch of stuff on the hog,

Jill: 12:15

but, not the

Charles: 12:16

but keep keeping the, well, again, I've, I've learned bad experience. I've tried curing, um, skinless hams and they cure, but they dry out. immediately. Like it's the, the shelf life of a skinned cured ham is not very long. Um, you got to think about this super protective layer. Um, you know, impenetrable really layer of, of skin. And of course you've got the open end where all the meat is showing through, but you salt all that really heavily. Um, And yes, now having said that, you know, if you want to go through the, so this is the nice thing. If you're just interested in curing, say the hams, right? Well, you can just scald and scrape. So we'll, we'll back up in a minute and talk about. killing the hog. Um, but you can just scald and scrape, especially with the towel method, the hams, like the, you know, the lower extremities of the pig, and then you can skin the rest out, right? You, so you, you've got some options, uh, skin or, uh, uh, Uh, scalding and scraping the head is precarious work, but it's also worth it because you can, you know, if you, if you go deep down, uh, you can do a, like a porchetta di testa, you know, you can debone the, the whole head and tongue and wrap all that up. And I mean, it's, it's. The best in the world. It's just a lot of work, but the skin on the hams is important

Jill: 13:50

Okay. That's, that's great advice, because I know, I think a lot of people aren't going to think of that, especially even if they're going to a butcher, they're just not going to be thinking to request that. Do you find, or do you have a feel of how many butchers do the scalding and scrape? Is that a rare thing to find, or is it kind of 50 50? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Charles: 14:09

I would say it's probably not 50 50. It's it's um, I would say fewer

Jill: 14:17

Okay. Thank you.

Charles: 14:18

but it depends. I mean again, i'm fortunate. There's well, okay I mentioned two of the three will scald and scrape but one of the two that's called and scrapes like you've got to make an appointment way in advance because that They don't do that for all pigs, and so the slots aren't as numerous. But again, this gets back to the day you bring the pigs home, start making calls and planning it out. Um, you know, as it relates to, let's just, okay, we're not going to go to the butcher, we're going to do this at home. Uh, they're a very easy animal. Uh, Again, a little feet on the ground, you know, get them to the spot. I can't wait for your listeners to play with pigs because again, by the time we get here, it's just a little can of corn shaking it. And that pig will follow you anywhere you want to go. People lose their minds when we start talking about leading an animal into for that one bad day. But you know, they're happy as a lark all the way up to the. To the minute you, you know, you put a bullet in the back of their head, which is, which is my preferred method of, of kill. Um, some people like to go through the top of the head. I like to come, I like to be behind the pig. So imagine, you know, you've got some food scraps or something. You put them on the ground, they're eating and you come right in behind. the ear. And, um, you know, this is not a job for a 22. Uh, you know, I'd say 32 is the minimum caliber you ought to use, but I use a nine millimeter, um, as my preferred weapon and, uh, one, one to the back of the head. And then I would have a knife handy. You want to immediately get into the jugular, uh, after you've, after you've Thank you. shot the pig and, uh, and cut that, cut that vein to start draining the blood. Um, so, so to, to, to walk through the process, it's bang. cut. And then if, if, if we're going to be doing some scalding and scraping, you know, you already have your water heated, all of that's ready to go, you know, and hopefully proximate. And so you start, you get into the whole scald and scrape. So you get them, get them wet and start scraping the hair off. And then at some point you're done, whether that's a full body scald and scrape or not, it's also handy to have a, uh, a blow torch of sorts. It doesn't have to be a big blowtorch, but sort of down to the end, uh, you'll find some hairs that are just rampant and you can't sort of scrape them off. And so a lot of times they'll, they'll quick run up a, uh, a torch over and just burn the hair off, uh, is a good strategy, but yeah. And then once you've gotten your, your hair off, you string them up just like you would a deer or any other carcass and eviscerate them.

Jill: 17:04

Okay, and that's what I was gonna ask you because I was I was always picturing scalding after the evisceration. But you're saying do that immediately after you cut you cut the jugular and then yeah,

Charles: 17:11

that's that. Yeah. It's an, it's an important. Point to bring up is you're other than the jugular puncture to drain the blood. You're not putting any more You're not cutting any blemishes in the body because if you did again, this water is really hot. You're gonna end up cooking Yeah the meat and so you've got some time to do it. I mean, I've done this before, you know Just a sort of a hand scald and scrape If you've got an Amish farm anywhere within, you know, first of all, you should go see him anyway, if they, if they take visitors, but oftentimes they're there, if they're raising pigs, they're doing this. And so for your listeners, that might be a good step one before you even jump into the game. Just go watch somebody else do it. Um, Or, or ask for their help, you know, maybe they'll come over and help you. But yes, you want to keep the skin intact, uh, until you're done with whatever degree of scald. And scrape that that you're wanting to achieve and then string them up, cut them open and eviscerate.

Jill: 18:17

Okay. So the few times we have processed our own pigs right now we take them to the butcher because we have a good local butcher but I we didn't we just skinned them because I I just assumed the scalding I had to have like a giant barrel. Now that I say that, I'm like, that sounds ridiculous, but I didn't realize you could just do with towels and hot water. So this is enlightening to say the least.

Charles: 18:36

Yeah. there's, there's a couple ways to do it. I mean, so I'll tell you three ways. One is the, the lots of water, you know, hot. I, I, I like to get the water a little hotter than they tell you it needs to be. But again, This is where local knowledge, elevation, all of those, you know, it's just like baking cakes, you know, everybody it's 42 minutes in the oven at 350 versus 47, right? So local knowledge is helpful. Um, I'm sure there's some chat rooms and Facebook groups and all this out there for such things, but, um, But yeah, so the towel method works great, especially if you're just going to do the hands. Like you think about the middle of your back down, that's all you're going to scrape the hair off of. Um, then beyond that, the two methods I've seen, if you've got a tractor or some way to really pick this animal up and down, then, you know, 55 gallon drum over. over a fire and you fill the drum about halfway with water. Don't fill it all the way up cause you put the pig in and all of a sudden you put your fire out and you dip, you dip, you know, one end of the pig in and then you flip it over and you dip the other end of the pig in and you can be scraping while, you know, while that's going on. And then the other method I've seen, which is the one I've actually done is they took that 55 gallon barrel and they cut it in half lengthwise and laid it down on its side. And so, you're, you're, you're rolling the pig in this 55 gallon barrel. Um, depends on the size of the pig. Again, you know, if it's, it's a full market weight size pig, you're going to be hard pressed with that method. Uh, just because there's not as much room in there as you'd like. But, um, but yeah, those are the three ways that I've seen it done or done it myself. Uh, but, but again, the towel is. Is highly effective.

Jill: 20:30

Yeah. And I'm just picturing, I mean, wrestling a pig around to trying to get it in hot scalding water. I mean, that's, you're going to have to have some major equipment. I mean, that's just a lot more cumbersome. So I feel like the towel method for a homesteader is just. The way to go.

Charles: 20:44

It works pretty well. Yeah, I I it's I've seen it and I've done it and it works And so and you know, you put the towel on you wet it you pour some more You know you have a have your pot and so you're you're dipping Out of a big pot and you're just pouring it over over these towels and uh again the the um, the dish soap is a big one That surface tension break, uh, same if you're scalding, uh, chickens, put a little dish soap in your, in your, yeah, oh yeah, it just gets, it gets all the way down to the skin, which is what you want.

Jill: 21:19

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. The whole time you've been talking about this. I mean, I, I scald her. I'm the one who always scalds the chickens. And I'm just 145 and I have the, it just to feel like you said, local knowledge and just to feel. You just got to do it a couple times, but it's not, it's not difficult once you have the hang of it. Just like with anything, I

Charles: 21:33

but yeah, I mean, you're, you're also speaking to sort of the pressure we put on ourselves, right? If I'm doing 10 chickens, you got the first one to learn on, and then you've got nine more that you can get right. You know, with the pig, it's sort of like one and done. And so. I, again, I recommend research, research, research, and local knowledge if you can find it.

Jill: 21:58

Yeah. Yeah. That's a good formula for so many things. Um, so you mentioned, you know, curing, obviously we're, we're getting the hair off so we can cure. Do you recommend that folks cure at home generally or finding butchers to do that? And if you do find a butcher who cures, do you have things that you look for or things you avoid in butcher methods?

Charles: 22:19

Okay. So, well, you got two things there. You got butchering and then you got curing. This, this is my Bible. You can see I got a bunch of pages marked in here. This is a curing and smoking made at home. This is, um, can I mention the author?

Jill: 22:35

please.

Charles: 22:36

Yeah, this is Dick and James Strawbridge. I've had this book for a number of years. Um, and it's a, it's a fantastic, fantastic reference guide. And then, uh, Ryan Farr's book. This is this whole beast butchery.

Jill: 22:51

that one looks really good.

Charles: 22:52

Oh, this is a fan and it, and it covers pigs. It covers a number of different red meat species. Uh, so those are my two great go to reference guides. Again, there's, there's a million of them out there. These are just two that I've sort of settled on, uh, because we, okay. So back to the book. So you got butchering, which is how do you want the pig cut up? And then you've got curing, which is that they're related because you want a certain cut, like the Copa, for example, out of the shoulder, if you want to cure it. Then you need it, you need it to be whole. Um, and then there's all, you know, how much grind do you want? If you've got, again, this goes back to the go and shake their hand, but if you've got a good butcher that will cure and, and, and again, conversationally, like what will you do? Is it, can you just cure bacon? Um, you don't see it much Jill, just because, and you'll, you'll see a little bit more in the. In the state inspection side, but from a USDA standpoint, it's, it's an added layer. It's an added HACCP plan. So a lot of butchers will not cure or smoke. because it's another layer of government regulation. They have to abide by, uh, food safety and all that fun stuff. So I, I do recommend here's a nice middle, middle ground, get your butcher to cut things the way you want. For example, a whole belly, right? Get them to, uh, give you the whole belly. Then you can block it and cut it in half. You know, a whole belly is a big piece of meat, right? And so if you want to play around with bacon, my suggestion is have the butcher. if it goes to a butcher, have the butcher cut the belly out and you get the belly and then you do your own curing and smoking and various things. So you can, you can marry the two together. Um, but if the butcher doesn't exist, you know, having a home grinder, uh, I, I love hand crank grinders, but of course every mixer. On the planet's got a, got a meat grinder attachment these days, and then you just get your sausage stuffing and so you can, you can make sausage or you can make cured sausage. I mean, the, the, the, again, the options are, are limitless. Um, now with the hams. And then again, this is back to why you keep the skin on. If you want hams, I would suggest it. You should totally, there's two hams. So at the very least, take one, cure it, smoke it, hanging in a barn somewhere. Uh, you can, you can grind the other ham back when I was producing a lot of pork. I would, there was nothing I did with the hams other than if they were scalded, scraped and skin on, they go to the cure. I do have someone locally that was able to do that for me, uh, but if not, they were ground. And so I'd turn that whole ham into sausage, you know, um, ground pork, whatever.

Jill: 25:59

Okay. Yeah. Do you have thoughts on, I know you're, you're referencing the dry cure method with your, your smoking, you're salting, you're hanging, do you have your, like, what are your thoughts on dry versus wet? Because I've just played with like, sometimes I'll take a pork shoulder or a smaller fresh ham and I'll just do a wet brine for, you know, five, 10 days in the fridge. What would you say to people who are trying to figure out the differences and like sort out which one is, is better? Or maybe they're not better, just, you know, different.

Charles: 26:26

yeah. They're, they're both great. I think, I think the wet brining and wet, uh, curing my, you know, I'm not a pro, I'm a, I'm a amateur at best, but I think that's more of an immediate situation. So if I want to eat this piece of meat in the next week or two, then you can look at some, I mean, the advantage to the dry curing is the shelf life of that. meat is substantially longer. You know, your salamis and all of those things. I mean, they, you know, I mean, look at the front of the book, you know, that's, it's just hanging around. And once it's cured and dried, uh, I think we, I think we talked about it in the last podcast. I still have them. I've got one hanging in my garage right now. These hams that are just two, three, four years old. And, uh, you cut them open and it's just, it's just magical how good it tastes. So, yeah, I, I, I mean, I, again, I would say explore it all, you know, don't, don't get overwhelmed. Everybody, you know, everybody wants to get overwhelmed. So if you want to explore both, you know, pick a wet curing recipe, uh, and pick a couple dry curing recipes and go from there.

Jill: 27:33

yeah. Do you ever have people wonder if you're a serial killer when you have hams hanging in your garage?

Charles: 27:41

Uh, no,

Jill: 27:42

Okay, good. Just, just thought I'd ask.

Charles: 27:45

I, uh, now who knows what they say when they leave? Um, but, uh, it's, it's a good way to keep strangers out,

Jill: 27:53

that's true.

Charles: 27:54

have a couple of, have a couple of moldy, nasty looking hams hanging in your garage. Um, and, and, and for, for your listeners that don't know, flies don't go anywhere near it. Nothing goes, it's, it's the most amazing thing. You know, once it's cured, everything's hermetically sealed. Now it'll get moldy, nasty. It'll look like something you'd never want to touch. And you just, when it comes time, when that day comes and you are ready to eat your ham, you know, get your white vinegar and a little water and scrub brush and scrape it off and give it one day to dry back out and then get to, get to slicing.

Jill: 28:33

yes. It's funny how those of us in this world, this homestead, whole food world, like, I was thinking about the other day, because I was around someone who was like, super hyper focused on, Oh, this has like the teeniest bit of mold on it. I can't eat it. It was cheese. Right? And like, I'm used to like my home cured cheeses will get mold on the outside and their little vacuum seal. And I'm like, cut it off, kids. Let's break it up. And it's just, you just lose your, uh, aversion to that so quickly. Once you start to understand whole foods and the processes, it's funny, just scrape that mold off that ham. It's good. I mean, that feels so normal to you. And I think someone listening who wasn't, you know, uh, immersed in the world would be like horrified at this moment. I mean, I think we already have probably horrified, go ahead.

Charles: 29:12

isn't penicillin derived from mold?

Jill: 29:15

Yeah. Yeah. And like blue cheese and yeah. So many of these foods. I'm like,

Charles: 29:20

ferm, fermentation,

Jill: 29:22

Yeah.

Charles: 29:22

fermentation is, you could almost art, make the argument that fermentation co evolved with humans.

Jill: 29:31

Yeah.

Charles: 29:32

I mean, it goes back as far, I mean, part of this is the germ theory and where everybody's afraid of being, I mean, uh, yes, you should, you should always be consuming a little bit of, uh, microbial nastiness. Uh, it's, it's, the, it's the, key to health.

Jill: 29:51

Yes, yes. And once you start to understand the process of so many of these foods, whether it's like the curing or the fermentation or the cheese, I'm like, it's, it's a process of, um, breaking down that makes it so delicious. You know, we think that that's instantly bad and it's not.

Charles: 30:07

yeah, I have found, uh, so, uh, kefir. Okay. Kombucha. Kombucha actually is a better example because that's a little bit more commercially, you know, everyone knows what kombucha is, um, and apple cider vinegar. Those two. I think that's a good bridge thing to talk about with people skeeved out because those, those are fermented. you know, mass marketed items, apple cider vinegar and, and, and, and a kombucha. So sauerkraut for crying out loud.

Jill: 30:42

Right. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's just, it's just funny. I think once you kind of start going down the road, you, you get converted pretty quickly, but it's always funny when you have the uninitiated,

Charles: 30:51

yeah,

Jill: 30:52

the body part floating in the, in the jar? I'm like, it's a kombucha scoby. And then it's just like, mind blown. So yeah. And it's not a body part, but it looks like one. It's not an organ. I

Charles: 31:02

It looks like the jars from the star Wars movie when they go in the bar, you know, and I got All those.

Jill: 31:06

Yeah. All this stuff. Yeah. It's funny. Um, okay. So I want to, well, before we switch over to more of a deep dive on lard, is there anything else you wanted to add about the home butchering process?

Charles: 31:18

Yeah. So, well, it's, it's a really good segue. Okay. So Again, back to, it's going to depend on whether or not you've scalded and scraped your entire animal. Let's, let's, let's go with the halves, these model real quick, and then people can dial up or down from there. So you, you scald and scrape the bottom half. So you got whole hams, you're going to skin out the rest. And so, you know, you eviscerate, uh, now to whatever degree I haven't, I haven't gone down deep in this, uh, wormhole yet, but you know, you got the liver in there, you got the kidneys, you've got the, you've got the intestines, you know, if you want to, if you want to pull the intestines out and empty them out, you've got chitlins and I, I don't, I don't rock chitlins, uh, to each their own, but, uh, but you've got some glands in there. You've obviously got the heart. Uh, these are all things that you want to. save, um, and, and use. You've also got the kidney fat. Okay. So as you're eviscerating, the good news about the kidney fat is, you know, you're a first timer, you cut them open, all the guts spill out of the ground. Well, again, I would tell you, pick all the stuff up. You won't wash it off. You're fine. But the, the kidney fat's going to actually cling inside to the carcass. It's, it's visceral, but it's think about it's stuck in inside. Um, so you're going to want to, you're going to want to With the kidney fat, you want to cool the animal off. This, this again speaks to sort of the seasonality of pork. If you don't have a walk in cooler or anything like that, I would suggest once you've scalded and scraped and eviscerated, if, if it's cold enough in the winter, or you have a deer hunting cooler or something, you can hang it in. I would, I would recommend giving it a day to You know, really come down to temperature. Uh, you want to get the carcass cool as quickly as possible. So this is again, one of the reasons why we, we kill hogs in the winter. So nice cool morning. That's probably another thing to, to help you plan your. Butchering day again on the homestead is let's let's just make sure it's going to be nice and cool. And so The reason you want to do that is it'll that fat will harden up Even the subcutaneous fat will all harden up. It'll make it'll make butchering a lot easier Now you don't age pork like you do beef, you know, you hang or deer or anything like that um So as soon as it comes to temp, it's, it's time to get going. But, but yeah, I would pay particular attention during evisceration to the organs. pull out what you want, probably save a few things you don't think you want, you know, especially if you have dogs and everything else can go into compost heat. You know, that's, you know, save all the blood. Uh, if you're, if you're crazy aficionado, uh, get us, get some of the blood at the very get go, like save a bunch of blood. I've heard of people making ice. So apparently pig's blood has the same qualities as, uh, as egg yolks in terms of

Jill: 34:28

Oh,

Charles: 34:30

Yeah, I've had pig's blood ice cream before and it was, it was absolutely delicious. Um, even, even knowing it was pig's blood ice cream, I found it absolutely delicious. But there's a, there's a lot of things you can do with the blood as well. So you might, you know, again, just sort of going backwards here, you might want to reserve some of the blood. you know, bang cut reserve. And, uh, you know, you can make blood meal, all sorts of stuff, uh, out of that. But, um, but yeah, I think, I think we sort of covered it. Uh, the cooling off will help the harvesting of the kidney fat, the leaf fat on a pig. It'll, it'll make that easier. And, uh, and it'll also stiffen sort of stiffen everything up. It'll make the muscle cutting. Uh, a little bit easier. And again, if this was done in a butcher and a slaughterhouse, that is exactly what they would do. They would kill the animal, if they're going to scald and scrape, scald and scrape it, eviscerate it, and then hang it in a cooler overnight and let it cool off. Because you do want to get that hog, any animal, you want to get them within 24 hours, but especially hogs, you want to get them to, you know, 40 degrees or less.

Jill: 35:46

Yes. Yes. Um, and I know that's always, that was one of our biggest challenges. here was, well, that's why we stopped butchering our own beef. And obviously we couldn't sell our beef anyway, if we had butchered it here, it has to be USDA certified, but like just the hanging process of beef and getting it cold, fast enough was such a challenge. And even with pigs, like you said, it can be tricky just watching the weather and you get your crew to help you. But then if it's hot, you have to, you know, divert your calendar. So it's, I think that's one of the trickiest parts. It's not hard. You just have to court me.

Charles: 36:15

Yeah. How the hell did we survive 200 years ago?

Jill: 36:19

I know, I know. think we overthink so much now, but yeah, they, uh, yeah, it's, it's incredible. They didn't have tractors to hoist it up or coolers and all the things. So, so, okay. So we have our pig hanging. We have our, our kidney fat up in the carcass. And I think we talked about this last time, but I want to talk about it briefly again, because I think it's a really important differentiation. There are breeds of pigs that are for lard production, and there are more meat breeds. And this was a huge, very disappointing revelation the first time we butchered because I had no idea there was a difference. I had buckets ready for my lard collection, my leaf fat, and I got like this much, just like a cup from these breeds of pigs that were more commercial breeds. So can you talk through that for just a minute so our listeners know what to expect depending on the breed they have on butcher day?

Charles: 38:25

I, I only know from my experience, right? So, um, we never had an issue with, uh, with limited amounts of, of subcutaneous fat. back fat. Uh, we ran red waddles and old spots. Um, if, if, if you're, I can't wait to do it one day, but Mangalitsa is an especially lard heavy, fat heavy breed. Um, so look, look at some Mangalitsas. But I would say any of your, there's two pieces to it. There's the breed, which I would say any of your standard heritage breeds are going to give you fat, but it's also food. Um, you know, we have a tendency in a homesteader. I was guilty of this too in a homesteader. You know, it's like, well, let's just let them forage for whatever they can get. And you know, this is the other side of the coin with pigs. You know, you can't just let them out in the pasture and let them eat their way to fattiness. You gotta feed them. Um, Now, if you've got some acorn glens on your homestead, you know, hopefully the acorns come in, but, you know, those last two to three months of that pig's life, they need to be getting, you know, four to five pounds of feed from somewhere a day. And so if the forage isn't real robust, you know, part of the problem you may run across, Jill, is. There's just not enough calories to pack on the fat, right? And so that, that, that's part of the formula. Uh, now again, you can, you can go source. If you've got, you know, local breweries or distilleries or anything like that, there's a lot of ways that this is the beauty of pigs is they can, they can thrive on, on a lot of different things. Um, but it's a factor of feeding. Feeding is a big, big component of it. So, um, those are the breeds I'm aware of. Uh, oh, and, uh, uh, large blacks. I've run some large blacks. Now they're a little bit more torpedoey, what you would call a bacon pig. And so, you know, really big, long torpedo like bellies. Um, but I, you know, again, if you're feeding them out and they're getting up to that 300 pound mark at eight months. You're going to

Jill: 40:36

Okay. Does that, but like, if I have like a more commercial modern breed, like a durock or a hamster or whatever, like, is it, or could I feed them to get more fat Like, especially like that leaf fat you think, or?

Charles: 40:50

Well, the leaf leaf fat is visceral fat now um We will I mean if you've ever had a dexa scan And I've suggested for folks that are sort of wanting to dig into their own health But a dexa scan will show you you have this much subcutaneous fat and this much visceral fat the you can Uh, you can encourage visceral fat growth by, uh, laziness and over consumption of calories. Um, uh, you can. Uh, it's a little harder, but... When we start talking diet and packing on the pounds, whether this is beef, pork, anything, you're really talking about subcutaneous fat. So the kidney fat, let's just say that that's, that's set in stone. Um, now it's, it, it is a biological growth. So the bigger the pig, the bigger the fat will get. But, um, but yeah, and that's an important distinction. You've got leaf fat internal kidneys, and then you've got all the other fat that's, uh, that's padding that animal. So, um, and you'll have plenty of that

Jill: 41:57

Okay. Interesting. Um, so when you're, uh, collecting fat to render into LARD, are you separating your sub Q fat and your visceral fat? Or are you just kind of throwing everything in the same bucket for rendering? Okay.

Charles: 42:12

Separate it. Yeah. You, you, you, you want to keep. So, okay. So we've killed, we've scalded, we've scraped, we've eviscerated, we've hung it's the next morning. Let's butcher this sucker. Right. Okay. So if you're again going to encourage. The whole ham, you know, look them up, figure out how to cut that whole thing off, get it hanging, get it salted out of the way. Um, if we did the half and half and you're going to skin out the rest of the animal, um, and, and, and again, this is why you cool it off so you can grab that skin and get as close. To the skin as possible.'cause every, you know, every cut that you make, that's not just the skin, you're cutting into all those fat stores. So you get that wrapped off and then you start, you know, with, with the spine, the chops, all of that. But you're trimming this fat off everyone's nose of pork chop, you know, and just it. And you've got this fat cap on it. Well, that fat cap is going to be as big as you want it to be for the pork chop and everything else you trade trim off is, is going to be your, your lard. And so, yeah, if you're have your buckets, have your buckets, out for, uh, for all the various cuts, but yes, you, you definitely want to keep your. Leaf fat separate from your back fat call it back fat

Jill: 43:31

Just because.

Charles: 43:32

and you'll want to render them

Jill: 43:33

Now explain why. Yeah.

Charles: 43:36

different Okay, so so so leaf lard, which is the kidney fat Again, this is homesteady. This was prized for baking. So because it doesn't store anything Think biological function, right? A pig will metabolize vitamin D from the sun and it will store that in its subcutaneous fat. That's lard. Okay, which is why lard is amazing. It's not going to store anything environmentally or minerally or It's just not storing anything in its visceral fat. That fat's purpose is to protect the organs. And so when you render it, it's odorless and colorless. When you heat up leaf lard, now as soon as you cool it off, it turns pale white. But when you heat it up, it's slicker than water. Like you can't, it's clear. But from a baking perspective and cooking perspective, it's not going to impart any odor or taste or smell. to whatever it is that you're making. So keep it separate,

Jill: 44:40

Okay.

Charles: 44:42

separate jars, separate rendering process. Yeah. So, so you've pulled your, you've pulled your leaf fat out. It's over here on the side, you know, in a cooler. Right. And then you've trimmed off all of your other back fat. Uh, and it's over here to the side. Uh, when it comes time to rendering, you just. grind that stuff up. I like to grind it. Some people will just chop it, but I like to run it through a grinder and uh, and yeah, just put it in a pot with a little bit of water, a low heat, a little bit of water and you render it and just give it time, you know, just be patient. Some people will, um, there's a, there's a recipe out there to like, Fill your, um, crock pot, uh, with, with, uh, fat and a little bit of water and just turn it on low and leave it for 24 hours. You come back and you just spoon all that stuff out. Um, rendering the lard is going to be a little messier than rendering the leaf lard. Leaf lard renders very easily cause it's. It's, it's kind of wild. It's this one big globulous piece of fat, right? It's think about it's like, it's like encased in, in viscera. And so you grab it and you pull it out and it's this big chunk. So it's like a, uh, like a Tootsie roll. Okay, you unwrap the tootsie roll and that's what you render. And so it's a really big tootsie

Jill: 46:04

I mean, it's good, though. I got the instamental image, so you should keep that one.

Charles: 46:08

Perfect. Perfect. So with lard Because because it's subcutaneous fat so you have to think about that fat was was layered on over months and months and months. And so it's got a lot more biological cellular material to it. So when you grind it up and render it, uh, you'll, you'll have a lot of pork cracklings. We should talk about those, save them or feed them to your chickens or both. But if you've never made pork crackling cornbread, you are missing out on the finer things in

Jill: 46:41

That's intriguing.

Charles: 46:42

and they freeze well. You know, you can vacuum seal them, freeze them. Um, again, chickens will eat the absolute tar out of, out of, um, out of pork cracklins. But, uh, but yes, you'll have very few cracklins. in the leaf lard rendering process just because there's less biological stuff, uh, than you will with, uh, with the lard rendering. And you'll get, uh, just for your ratios, every pound of visceral fat, you'll get about a cup of rendered lard on the leaf side. And then about every two pounds of back fat is going to give you about a cup

Jill: 47:21

Okay, because there's more of the

Charles: 47:23

So that sort of, that sort of speaks to Yeah, but I don't like to call them impurities. It's just It's, it's, It's, fat and, uh, connective tissue and things of that nature. There's just more of that in back fat.

Jill: 47:37

accurate to say that the back fat would have more nutrient qualities? because like you said, it's absorbing vitamin D and all that, versus the leaf fat, which is around the organs? Or is it similar in... and nutrition.

Charles: 47:54

I don't know for sure. I know that beef tallow is touted as having high vitamin A and this, that, and the other, and it's the visceral fat from, from, from, uh, you know, a ruminant animal. Um, my hypothesis, I've never taken stuff to a lab, but my hypothesis is that the lard would be way more, again, it's environmental, right? You raise a healthy, happy, one bad day pig, I, I'm going to hypothesize that that fat is more chopped full of vitamins and minerals. than your leaf fat. Uh, for sure. Has to be, has to be, because that's the, that's the vitamin mineral storage organ.

Jill: 48:38

Yes. And that's what I mean, that's what I was thinking. I wasn't, yeah, I'm sure it'd be hard to get that tested definitively, but it would make sense. Like you said. Yeah. Um, okay. One of the questions or concerns that I hear a lot from folks is they're worried about the lard tasting piggy or offensive or too strong. And I know we talked about how the leaf fat. is going to be milder by nature. Do you have any thoughts for folks who are, are you doing back fat, you know, that, that subcutaneous fat and are concerned about flavors? Just, just lean into the flavor.

Charles: 49:13

I mean, well, it's, it's so mild. I mean, who doesn't, who doesn't Brown their Chuck roast in bacon drippings? Like give me a freaking break. Um, uh, we've gotten into this super hyper clean world. Where cuz cuz Crisco which candidly I don't even remember what it smells like now I'm not even sure. it's got a smell. It's been so long since I

Jill: 49:41

Yeah.

Charles: 49:42

I don't know I don't know but we've gotten to this place now where if it has a smell then that's somehow indicative of not good and and again people People think that lard smells like bacon drippings. It does not. Bacon drippings smell like bacon drippings. And so, uh, I mean there's, don't get me wrong, there, there is a palpable, especially during the, rendering process, there's a palpable odor in the air of fat. Uh, I find it wonderful. Um, once you've cooled it off and it's been in the fridge and it's back to, you know, it's sort of solid, uh, state, uh, and, and it's not, in a solid state on your kitchen counter. Right? It's, it's liquid. It's, it's viscous, but it's not like tallow where, you know, you've got to dig into it pretty hard, uh, at room temperature. Now you put it in the fridge, it'll, it'll, it'll harden up a little bit. But, uh, but yeah, I, I don't grow up people. This is, this is real awesome stuff.

Jill: 50:52

on this. Yeah. I have actually ranted on this. I think on the podcast or on Instagram where I'm like y'all, Like their culture is so obsessed with food, food is not tasting like where they came from. And obviously that can go too far and be offensive or rotten or, uh, rancid. But like. Yeah, like when I now that I'm closer to food after homesteading for over a decade, like I can like when I drink milk, I know what I know what cows body odor smells like not their manure, but I know like what their breath smells like. And I know what a cow smells like. I can I can smell that and taste it in milk. Not, it's not offensive to me at all. I'm like, it came from a cow. It should be cow like, um, but I'm like, it's not it's not a bad thing. It just, it's an animal product. The same with eggs, like eggs will take taste richer. So I think we just have to readjust our taste buds as a culture.

Charles: 51:42

Yeah. Well, if you, and if you take all the hyper processed foods out of your diet and all the additives and all of this you're, you're going to start tasting. I have Jill, I have pictures. My, my cousin, he's my dearest cousin. He's a junker and teaker and he's a collector of things. I have pictures. I'll send you one of turn of the century. So this is early 1900s, late 1800s, large tens. Okay. So every everyone's familiar with the holiday. a bucket of popcorn like the big popcorn tin. Okay, so I, have pictures of Tens of lard ranging from eight pounds to 120 pounds of lard. This is back before refrigeration. This is back before HVAC, any of that stuff. So I want you to imagine for a minute, 120 pound can of lard.

Jill: 52:38

yes, we, I found one at our soda fountain in our basement. There was so much junk down there. I found one. It's huge. And you could like, fit a small child inside. It is ginormous.

Charles: 52:49

Oh, yeah.

Jill: 52:50

It's so cool.

Charles: 52:53

Well, I mean, I store my rendered stuff, you know, before I make cream. I store it in five gallon buckets and those five gallon buckets weigh about 40 pounds. So, imagining a hundred and twenty pound vat of lard pre refrigeration. So again, like this stuff can sit, it's, it's fat. it's, just gonna sit there and wait for you to

Jill: 53:19

brings me to actually a question I had for you So people are always, I get a ton of emails, they're scared of the storage because we are so used to refrigeration. on all the things. I always tell them, I'm like, it's shelf stable, y'all, just leave it in your pantry. Is, is that, I can tell them that, right? That's like not bad information. It's not gonna go,

Charles: 53:37

Of course, and if it's

Jill: 53:39

know. right. So if it does go, cause if they, let's, is there an

Charles: 53:42

Oh yeah.

Jill: 53:42

would go rancid faster? Like if it was, uh, rendered maybe not as thoroughly, could it go rancid more quickly or is it kind of just like eh?

Charles: 53:51

Oh, oh no. That's it. I'm glad you brought that up. So in the rendering process, there's, there's one step, especially with lard that I do. The leaf lards, again, it's a little cleaner. So you're rendering. So you got all this. You know, stuff, all the little bits and pieces. So I will, I will, it's almost like double distillation, uh, in the, in the liquor making business. Um, so I will have a colander with a cheesecloth over an empty pot. Okay. And as I'm ladling out my lard, cause you're going to get little bits and pieces, right? Some of that, some of the crackling is just going to, so I run it through a cheesecloth. colander, right. To, to, to make sure none of the particulate gets in cause that's, what's going to spoil, right. If it's pure fat, you're, you're good to go. Um, so yeah, I will take it through that process and then once I've got it all rendered, you know, I've got a big vat and then I will, so I, every rendering, I'm using two, uh, cheesecloths and of course I use the reusable washable ones. Right. And so, um. Yeah, so I'll do that. I'll get the first run through and then when it comes time to store I will run that back through another cheesecloth just to make sure there's there's no biological material, uh, in there.

Jill: 55:21

That makes sense. And that's what I kind of had that hunch that maybe if you hadn't, yeah, if there was stuff in there, that's where it would spoil more quickly. So that makes sense. Yeah.

Charles: 55:28

yep. And then when you jar it, however you want to store it again, you can store it in buckets or whatever the case may be when you, but, but immediately following rendering, like don't seal anything, let it cool because you'll get some condensation. Water's really the thing you don't want in there. That's, that's the, I mean, and even if it gets in there, it'll just be on the surface. Lord, I've, I've opened plenty of buckets of, stuff and there's a little mold on the top and you just spoon that out and discard it. Um, the fat provides this, uh, hermetic,

Jill: 56:04

I think that's the word. Yeah. Yeah. I know what you're saying. Yeah.

Charles: 56:07

I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. It, it, it seals. Right. And so if you if you got stuff on the top, it's just like that. It's just like that. ham, that black moldy, nasty ham. Well, hell, that's just on the outside. You scrape all that away and what's inside is this most delicious meat ever. So,

Jill: 56:27

I like also what you mentioned earlier, and I think that's a really cool point how it is so much easier to scoop at room temperature, which sounds like not a big deal, but it is a big deal when you need to use some, like, I love my tallow. I render tallow, but it is hard. And you have to like soften it or melt it before you, you know, dish it out or whatever. And the lard, I just love it because it's in a jar. I just scoop it. It's, it's like Crisco, but better. Yeah.

Charles: 56:48

well, yeah. And if you're measuring like I, so my daughter's birthday is this weekend. And so I made her a cake. And of course the recipe calls for vegetable oil. No, sir. But so if, well, you know, baking is science, cooking is more suggestion. And so, you know, you got to get those ratios, right? I can't imagine trying to like. you'd have to heat the tallow and pour it into the measuring cup cause you're never going to get close, you know, guessing. And so, yeah, the lard you just dip it on in there. Now, again, if you put it in your fridge for those that are just absolutely fearful of it going bad, put it in your fridge, but it is going to harden up. Not, not to the degree tallow does. It's still, still pretty creamy, but, um, but yeah, I mean 120 pound can pre refrigeration. So. There was enough of a market for us to produce 50, 40, 50. and 120 pound cans of this stuff. We didn't have anywhere to refrigerate it

Jill: 57:48

And it was fine. Yeah, it was fine. so fascinating. So we've, I just realized we're almost at time. We've had this has flown by such a good conversation. Um, we will do it

Charles: 58:00

do it again. I'll come on anytime. I love, I love these conversations.

Jill: 58:04

actionable, which I really appreciate. I love getting granular. There's so much broad information out there when when we can give like actual detail info just makes me happy. But we've talked a lot about LARD. food more food applications, which is a huge part of it. But I mean, really, where you're making waves is the skincare world, which I think we talked about this a little bit on the previous time you came on but that's not something we see lard used in as much. So if someone is interested in creating lard based Skin care. Um, by the way, just shout out guys, try Pharaoh's Lines. They are absolutely fantastic. But if you want to play with it on your own at home, because I know a lot of you are serial DIYers like me, what tips would you have for them?

Charles: 58:47

I would start with leaf lard, uh, as opposed to lard, uh, just in mixing, but you know, the sky's the limit. I, here's what you avoid. Do not, if you go to the Google, don't do emulsifications. Okay. Um, don't, don't, I mean, I shouldn't say that. You can emulsify. Listen, the first recipes I ever made after I found out Ballard works in mysterious ways, um, were an emulsification. I used beeswax as my emulsifier and I emulsified water. with lard and it was luscious Jill. It was to die for until seven days later when it went rancid and turned black. Okay. So if you want to play around, if we've got a big beach party or a pool party and you want to have a nice little lathery thing to, then you can make it right then in real time. And just, just know that this is a single use product. So you can play around with emulsifications all you want. I don't do that because I didn't want to get a degree in chemistry and figure out what toxic crap to put in there to keep all the bacteria from growing. So, so that's the emulsification side of the house. And again, you can do this in a mixer, you know, just your standard. Kitchen top mixer. That's where I'm in the fulfillment room of our manufacturing facility right now. And next door is the kitchen. So yeah, I get your mixing bowl out a nice whisk. You can do this by hand if you'd like, uh, if you don't have a, you know, a standup electric mixer, but yeah, just play around with it. I mean, I. You know, you got lard, you got leaf lard, you got tallow, you got any other, you know, various, I like take playing with tallows. I'm doing this now. Like I've got some bison tallow. It's really hard compared to beef tallow. And so playing with sort of like the. the ultimate sort of viscosity of the product and ratios and, you know, dump in whatever essential oils you want. Um, if you want to throw some zinc oxide in there and, you know, play around with like a, uh, homemade sunscreen, um, You know, the sky's the limit. It's, it's, it's absolutely, there's, there's no end to what you can do with, with the stuff in your kitchen. And, uh, and your skin will never look better cause you're going to have it all over you while you're making the stuff. And again, the Lord works in mysterious

Jill: 1:01:05

I did have a question because I know you do mix the tallow into your lard creams. Is it just to create more of that, um, slightly firmer texture? Is that why you're doing that primarily?

Charles: 1:01:16

Partially. Yeah. And you know, again, my first, my first recipes ever were this emulsified recipe, right? And I was like, Oh my God, this is a crazy, amazing. And then it went rancid. And so when I fired the water, I started playing with ratios of tallow. Cause again, I, I wanted to try and closely mimic at room temperature, a a standard cream that you buy at the market. Uh, and so, yeah, you know, again, you can play with it, play with your own, uh, ratios and formulas and various things. Can you go a hundred percent lard? Of course. Why not?

Jill: 1:01:54

Sure.

Charles: 1:01:55

I don't, I, you know, we'll probably have a hundred percent lard based cream at some point, but I, I like the, and even, even the viscosity of leaf lard to

Jill: 1:02:07

Hmm. Sure. Okay. Yeah.

Charles: 1:02:10

Right? Leaf lard is a little firmer. You know, it's a, it's a it's a little firmer, even at room temperature. Just like tallow is firmer than, well, we don't see a lot of rendered beef fat. Subcutaneous fat. It's usually used in the grind and all that fun

Jill: 1:02:27

Okay. Yeah. Um, so good. And guys, I just, I'll say it one more time. It's, it's the, the texture is so awesome. Like I put it on this morning. I put it on before I do makeup. I put it on at night before I get into bed. It's just like, it's so creamy. It's like very luxurious. And it's like. This whole like routine and I'm like, it's just funny. It's pig fat, but it's so luxurious. So if you're feeling a little bit of ick factor, don't like there is no ick factor. It is amazing.

Charles: 1:02:56

there's, there's no egg factor in awesome skin results.

Jill: 1:03:00

Yes.

Charles: 1:03:01

There's no ache factor there. And, and for, for your listeners, I will say, um, it's, it's not hard for ladies. It's a little hard to get over the large situation for guys. It's a little harder to get over the weight. I

Jill: 1:03:13

Totally.

Charles: 1:03:14

routine thing. Um, yeah, but I personal experience, I have not, uh, had razor burn in about three years. And, and, uh, and you know, ladies for the legs or whatever, you know, wherever you decide to shave, uh, it's helpful. But I, I, do think that speaks to men. Um, I got a really nasty scratch in jujitsu about three weeks ago and just did a, like, everyday photo of lathering up and, you know, There's no scarring, no nothing. So this stuff is

Jill: 1:03:45

again, one of those natural products people have been using forever and we went and complicated it. Uh, thank you industrial revolution with seed oils and all these crazy formulations. And I'm like, just go back to the basics, guys. It's so much, it's so much simpler and your skin will thank you. All right. Remind everyone where they can find you and where they can get in touch with Pharaoh skincare and order some of this for themselves.

Charles: 1:04:10

Sure. Our website is faro. life. Uh, I have another web address for your listeners if they want, if they will go to lardforthewin.

Jill: 1:04:22

Okay.

Charles: 1:04:23

com and give us their email address. Uh, we will, we will send them a discount code, uh, for their first purchase. And the reason I, I developed another website is because nobody knows how to spell Pharaoh. I get the P H A R O, you know, Egyptian and, and it's pharaoh. life, but yeah, lardforthewind. com. Uh, you know, we're on Instagram, you can look us up on Instagram and Twitter and all that fun stuff, but that's. That's the best spot to find us. And, uh, yeah, if they go there, they'll get a nice little coupon for their first purchase. So thank you for,

Jill: 1:04:57

Absolutely. Yes. Well, thank you, Charles. I think we enlightened the listeners. I think we definitely annoyed PETA if they even listen. They probably don't listen anymore because I think I probably annoyed them a long time ago, but thank you. I think this was such a fun follow up to last time and I look forward to having you on again.

Charles: 1:05:15

I would love the opportunity to, to talk pork and homesteading and all, all the things, so we'll have to, we'll have to figure out a fun topic for next. And, uh, thank you again, Jill.